Albania OOB (55)

[Jaakko]

Originally Posted by DRG

I've copied your info to the list and will look into it later in the year

Thanks, I appreciate that.

Originally Posted by Marcello

I will try to check but I would suspect they did not bother.
While stabilization systems of that era had some marginal usefulness it was something you could do without, many western tank designs lacked them well into the 60's and did just fine.
In a third world setting it was probably better not having them, what limited maintenance resources were available would better spent ensuring others more vital systems (engine etc.) were properly cared for.

I too would assume there weren't any actual updates, but perhaps "updates" in game terms - such as "newer ammo" from China during the 70's? For test's sake I made a copy of the Type-59 (unit 020), only changing the gun to "100mm T69 Gun" copied from China OOB(weapon 092) and availability set on the estimated possible 1/71. This increases the AP value from 19 to 21 (still one point less than the T-54/55). I feel this would make a plausible, if not presumable, "update".

I see no reason why remaining Soviet ammo would've been reserved for the aging T-54 and T-55, and I see no reason why they should keep on having better AP value beyond the early 70's. Maybe there should also be copies of the T-54 and T-55 units with the gun changed to Chinese ammo.

Also, is it optics or what that explains the better FC value of the T-54B and T-55? As of now it's 5 versus the 3 of the Type-59.

The only worthile change would be adding a LRF and a digital ballistic computer. I suspect they could have afforded that only recently, if at all.

Not in the 80's or 90's in any case. Before clear information appears, I'd focus on improving the OOB date of the Cold War era units but that's just my preference.

Marcello, do you have opinions on my questions concerning the other units?

[Marcello]

Originally Posted by Wdll

What you might be forgetting is that near the end of the 90's there was chaos for a long time in Albania

Having grown up watching scenes like the above every time the proverbial **** hit the fan there I don't see why I should fail to remember that the 90's were a tough time for Albania (incidentally I do also deal with albanians quite frequently, so I don't need to remembered that they aren't dumber than all other humans). Yet...

and everything was stripped and sold.Everything

It is a bit of an overstatement. The country was in the late 2000s still full of military hardware that evidently nobody was in a hurry to scrap.

This is just a small example. http://www.aeroplanemonthly.co.uk/ne...ws_152134.html
Of course these are jets, which are inherently more maintenance intensive than planes. Out of a similar row of tank making one or two "operational" (move and shoot, at least to a limited extent) by robbing the air filter from one and a cable from the next should not be impossibly hard.

As for Afghanistan, Albania was not at war at any point.

Well there was that little war which happened 1999 right at Albania doorsteps, without mentioning balkans were generally unhealthy at that time.

For what? Who were they going to fight? Serbs? Greeks? Italians? Their tanks would survive a couple of days at most (if they were operational). and they knew it.

Well, when a war is going on just beyond your border the government, if only for domestic purposes, ought to be able to show it is doing something. Sending some tanks to the border and shoot some rounds if needs be looks good; maybe they would not have lasted 20 minutes in an actual engagement but that's besides the point.


Source: http://www.militaryphotossearch.net/

I haven't found better pictures about that deployment but it does fit with what I remember.That should not be not something beyond the possibilites of 90's Albania.

[Marcello]

Originally Posted by Jaakko

I too would assume there weren't any actual updates, but perhaps "updates" in game terms - such as "newer ammo" from China during the 70's? For test's sake I made a copy of the Type-59 (unit 020), only changing the gun to "100mm T69 Gun" copied from China OOB(weapon 092) and availability set on the estimated possible 1/71. This increases the AP value from 19 to 21 (still one point less than the T-54/55). I feel this would make a plausible, if not presumable, "update".

I see no reason why remaining Soviet ammo would've been reserved for the aging T-54 and T-55, and I see no reason why they should keep on having better AP value beyond the early 70's. Maybe there should also be copies of the T-54 and T-55 units with the gun changed to Chinese ammo.

Also, is it optics or what that explains the better FC value of the T-54B and T-55? As of now it's 5 versus the 3 of the Type-59.

Just a quick answer from what I remember. Chinese export ammo of that era were, by the looks of them, probably straight copies or stuff in the same ballpark of soviet rounds; the 19-21 variance you see should be the BR412B/D gap, both of which were by then available long since.
As for FC value, Type 59 was based on T-54A.

[Wdll]

I am not disputing they might had 10 or so tanks able to move. But moving and being fighting capable is a huge difference.
And I too remember things very well at the time since I joined the navy in 1995 and I wasn't too young to know what is going on in the world.
As for the Balkans, they are always in trouble or about to be. That doesn't meant Albania was in any danger of getting into a war then.

[DRG]

I've added or corrected or removed what I could find info on and what I couldn't find info on I left alone for now. The info on the Type 69 RPG being one point less than Type-56 led to a re-examining of both types and corrections made to the Type 56 RPG and all the nations that used it.

Don