What is 'reasonable' return on research?

[Baron Munchausen]

My god... I've started a graduate seminar on 4X game design...

BTW, I agree that Temporal races ought to have a propulsion advantage. I used that nifty 'warp core' component that someone posted ages ago and gave them their own propulsion technology. It's got the 'bonus movement' ability like the solar sail, and it's also a Quantum Reactor so they don't have to research that independently.

As for all these research graphs and trees, this is awfully elaborate for a simple system like SE IV is right now. I was just referring to linear benefits. Does it makes more sense to get a larger and larger degree of benefits for increasing research costs or should benefits be linear, which results in 'diminishing returns' by default.

Yeah, for SE V I'd like to see variable tech research costs, and variable 'connections' across the tree to get to certain techs. This would play havoc with the AI but it would be so much more interesting for human players. But this will require major hardcode revisions. I suspect that the elaborate systems being discussed here will be a real pain to implement and especially to maintain with the current design of SE IV. We need some way of implementing entire series of components with one definition.

[ July 12, 2002, 20:29: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

[Trajan]

I don't think that research can really be thought of in a linear sense.

The two dimensional array's work nicely, though a three dimensional one would be better.

I think I am visualizing it as there being some way to advance through one research matix then make an advance in a particular area that suddenly jumped you to a different level of the matrix where the recent dramatic discovery would have an effect on all further research no matter the direction you take. Could you revert back to the original research matrix? I am not sure. I think that if you found a cheaper/better/faster way to propel your ships, not through better implementation of a know field of advancment, but rather through a never-before imagined breakthrough technology you would leave the old way behind and jump on the new technology.

for ex. If you spent 100 years developing transportation based on steam engine technology, then suddenly split the atom and found that you could make anti-matter propulsion a reality, why would you go back to steam engines in your ships.

---I am just brainstorming here, but hey...it is Firday afternoon in the States, and I am stuck at my desk with little motivation to work.

Cheers!
Trajan

[Gryphin]

Um, cool
If I understand,
You are trying to allow for:
Eureka! = as in the sudden realizaton of how to determine if the crown was pure gold. Making the connection between two seemingly unrelated concepts.
Serindipty = as in the realization that microwaves melted the chocolate in the engineres pocket. Making the connection between cause and effect
Good hard plodding work = As in the cure for cancer. Trial and error, Observing Cause and Effect, and Eurika!
That sounds like one sweet challenge. Hmm, I sound like the mouse who said soneone should put a bell arround the neck of the cat.

[Trajan]

If I understand,
You are trying to allow for:
Eureka!
Serindipty
Good hard plodding work

BINGO!

Basically, you would have a single non-complex matrix for the inital (Good hard plodding work) technological systems research set. If you encounter a "Eureka!" event (I dont know how the cause of that would work) you could jump to a new level of research in your current universe that has some significant multipliers applied to costs, but the payoffs would be equally significant.

Finally, there is the Serendipity event that would suddenly teach you about a whole new avenue of thought and could take your technological research to new levels, with new functions of cost applying to the technological advancements.

I am looking for a picture that would tell the story a little better. Basically I am talking about a three dimensional matrix of technological advancement.

Cheers!

[Gryphin]

oh, I forgot one:
Eureka!
Serindipty
Good hard plodding work
and
BINGO as in:
1) A farm Dog
2) Interpreting peoples thoughts

[Trajan]

Hmmm...The Farm Dog research Matrix...I could see that leading the the answer to life the universe and everything.

Cheers!

[Trajan]

Here is a quick image I whipped up that illustrates in a VERY basic format what I was trying to explain.

http://www.rbectel.co.uk/assets/images/matrix21.gif

Cheers!
Trajan