Mod: CBM 1.8 released

[WraithLord]

*one hot bath later *

Yeap. We do actually partly (fully?) agree. I see that

Let's break it down to three discordant factors:
A. GoR. check. 1.8 nailed that.
B. GoH. Yes. Too good Synergy, too cheap. But - at risk of overwrite and total loss of (GoH) investment. In your avg MP game you'd see GoH change hands precisely for that reason.
C. Chalice. Yes. Too good, way too cheap. Should be much more pricey. But- can be wished. Have you ever participated in a chalice wish war?- I have - It's for real.

So, A is overnerf of tarts. Some sort of compensation is needed for such supposedly bad-*** monsters. I mean dom would be poorer w/o them and at 1.8 settings they may become a rare sight.
B+C should be addressed as well by CBM though IMHO are less acute than A.

Now comes D into play: namely EDM and it's summons, by light of which death centric nations are, as of 1.8, at a disadvantage in the high end SC/Diversity summons section.

[kianduatha]

Originally Posted by WraithLord

*one hot bath later *

Yeap. We do actually partly (fully?) agree. I see that

Let's break it down to three discordant factors:
A. GoR. check. 1.8 nailed that.
B. GoH. Yes. Too good Synergy, too cheap. But - at risk of overwrite and total loss of (GoH) investment. In your avg MP game you'd see GoH change hands precisely for that reason.
C. Chalice. Yes. Too good, way too cheap. Should be much more pricey. But- can be wished. Have you ever participated in a chalice wish war?- I have - It's for real.

So, A is overnerf of tarts. Some sort of compensation is needed for such supposedly bad-*** monsters. I mean dom would be poorer w/o them and at 1.8 settings they may become a rare sight.
B+C should be addressed as well by CBM though IMHO are less acute than A.

Now comes D into play: namely EDM and it's summons, by light of which death centric nations are, as of 1.8, at a disadvantage in the high end SC/Diversity summons section.

But...you're saying in the same breath that Chalice/GoH are 'too good' for their effects on Tartarians and that EDM makes Tartarians an inferior choice. You can't have everyone simultaneously rushing to the Chalice/GoH for Tartarians *and* not even bother with Tartarians. If the majority of nations don't particularly care about Tartarians because they have other options, then there won't be such a rush to the Chalice...it'll just be a race among the Death-centric nations, most of which have other options as well. Right?

[thejeff]

Or simply remove the Chalice. It has other uses, but overwhelmingly it's for tarts.
Edit: As Soyweiser says, disease (and old age) would be much less of a problem.

GoH isn't as much of a problem, since it's visible and easier to get rid of.

Then you could balance around them not being healed.

Either approach could work. I'm a little weirded out by the idea of non-unique Chalice, but mechanically it should work.


Reducing Shattered Soul doesn't change the fundamental problem as I see it. Anymore than changing the cost does. The problem is that Tarts are overwhelmingly better for whoever can heal them than for those who can't. The loss of GoR makes it worse.

[Soyweiser]

How is disease demon bugged? I used it extensively in BootCamp. Work pretty well.

And Diseasing 5% of a army is a rather nice effect. Sure it will not kill them now. But in a few turns it will thin out, get afflictions etc. Mages need regen items, or you need GoH, or the Chalice. Of course you never cast one rain of toads. You cast it that often that there are no toads anymore in the whole world. Toadicide! It is only 10 slaves. Disease demon is more expensive.

Edit: Fixing old age would be a nice benefit indeed. .

About the *LOTS* remark, remember that price is linked to paths, so increasing the Chalice to N6S5 (now n4s3) it would cost 65N and 40S. But it would also require very large paths. I don't know if these are even accessible to C'tis, if balancing those nations is your plan. (And rushing to con8 would still be useful just to get a hammer ).

Anybody ever try out what happens when you have multiple chalices in a game?

[NooBliss]

Or you could make Chalice non-unique, make Tarts GoRable again and increase their cost to, say, 30D.
Taking additional expenses into account, that should them on par with other SCs.

And on unrelated topic... how often do you see Flame Arrows in mp? Without CBM it's much easier to cast, and very effective. With CBM, I believe I've only seen it once. Also, they are F4 and Enchantment 5. Arrow fend, which makes FA obsolete, is much easier to cast and just a bit harder to research.
I think they are quite overnerfed.

[Soyweiser]

Originally Posted by NooBliss

Or you could make Chalice non-unique

Does the word 'lore' ring any bells?

[NooBliss]

Originally Posted by Soyweiser

Does the word 'lore' ring any bells?

Removing clams, hammers and sdr's, removing the astral part from obviously astral items, adding new stuff and making tartarian exiles impossible to restore already ruined it in my opinion, so I wont mind seeing Chalice non-unique. Or anything else.

[thejeff]

Another problem with making the Chalice cost LOTS (which it would need to) is that you can't do that without giving it really high path requirements. (6S6N)?
So most nations won't be able to forge it without a specially designed pretender.

Hard to make it common enough to let everyone access tarts and rare enough to not affect anything else...


Edit: Ninjas. Ninjas everywhere.

[kianduatha]

Tartarians are fairly luck-based right now and far more testing needs done to figure out how much they should be altered--in my testing afflictions were much rarer on commanders and only one out of 5 or so was disabled due to them, not the other way around.

[Makinus]

The possession "bug" can be fixed by simply changing the name/description of the spell to "Mind Clone" or something other and changing the description that the mage clones his mind in the target unit, making it a commander, but the original body dies in the process... so the "cloned" commander would not be the original unit, only a copy, and the original could be mummyfied to bring it back....