Wishlist: Platoon HQs and some other questions.

[runequester]

Some wishlist things:
Apologies if there are good reasons these are not practical, but I figure it doesn't hurt to ask.

1: Platoon HQs. The general option now is to have a 4th infantry squad/section in the platoon to represent the HQ (I presume). This works well enough, but it does give some pretty beefy platoons. For a game that's generally very focused on being as accurate as possible, it's a little bit odd.

Would it be possible to have a proper "platoon HQ" unit instead? I figure it'd only be a couple of guys with sten/mp40/lunch boxes, but it'd keep them in a more proper role.

I can't imagine many technical limitations but I imagine that it might be a sizable amount of work to do, so maybe that's why ?

Feasible?
Likely?

2: Delete units from a campaign?
Maybe I am missing it, but I can't find an easy way to delete units from a long campaign, only change or add them. Is this something that could be added in ?

3: Rifles in MG teams
I understand the rationale for having that rifle slot in an MG team (they had a few lying around) but realistically who is actually around to fire them? The crew men would presumably be busy feeding ammo to the guns to keep them working. Especially compared to taking pot shots at 400 meters.
Wouldn't it be more realistic overall to cut the rifle slot away?
Is it just a legacy thing?

4: When buying a formation where there's multiple options for a unit type (f.x. an infantry platoon often has multiple type of squad to buy) would it be possible to implement a way to select different types for each squad?
f.x. german infantry platoon with 3 squads, would it possible to set it up so I can buy two of them as one kind (f.x. with rifle grenade) and the third as a different kind (f.x. with smg slot)

5: More of a bug, likely a known issue, and thus probably has a good reason for still being there, but I always thought it was weird that you can adjust the target point for an artillery attack to somewhere out of range of the gun.

6: A possibility to buy "one-shot" artillery as support, to use as a pre-game barrage but without having it be available throughout the battle. Reduce the cost compared to the regular batteries of course


Thank you in advance for reading

[Mobhack]

1) SP3 had nice tiddly little 10 man company HQs, which you instantly knew were these since nothing else was that small. Instant "Kill me first" sign.

There is no standard in OOBs - some have the platoon HQ (if small) parcelled out amongst the other 3 sections. Some are still obvious (by looking at their unique armament). But historically so - the UK platoon HQ/Fire Support section would be the only one chugging out 2 inch mortar fire.

2) Delete core formation already exists. Click on the core formation in the formation list in the build/repair screen. Individual element deletion is not supported, but you could always cross-attach undesired elements to a "delete me next time" holder formation.

3) Has always been that way since SP1. Same-same for mortar crews, gun crews etc. Probably not going to change.

4) Unless you design your own formation with Mobhack, using 3 different unit classes, and then copy/paste units to these classes etc, no. And there is no way we will be doing that sort of thing to the OOBS.

When I want say the number 3 section of each Soviet Guards platoon to be an AT-mine and SMG unit, I do it individually to a pattern (like every X3 = SMG section with AT mine) in the buy/repair screen.

5) Something to look into, some day.

6) If you feel the need - then create your own custom OOB. We already have arty batteries with extra ammo for those who want more. Those take up unit spaces, which are limited especially in some OOBS.

Andy

[runequester]

Appreciate the quick answers

Thank you for the tip on deleting units. I guess I somehow spaced it

[gila]

"Kill me first sign" had to laugh

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

Originally Posted by gila

"Kill me first sign" had to laugh

Yeah, me too, just like command vehicles and the "sherman 76 leads the way" thing

Btw, as for number 3, isn't it realist that someone will keep a lookout for targets(or flanking enemies) while the other guys fire their machine guns?

[Brian61]

Small crew served weapons, once deployed, only need two people to fire them (actually can get by with one though rof would drop off). The extra men are mostly ammo bearers, once they drop their ammo loads nearby the weapon, their job becomes observer/close in fire support.

It does bring up a question of why the crews for MGs in particular are so small, an early war german HMG section with two HMGs included 12 men + wagon drivers for example.

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by Brian61

Small crew served weapons, once deployed, only need two people to fire them (actually can get by with one though rof would drop off). The extra men are mostly ammo bearers, once they drop their ammo loads nearby the weapon, their job becomes observer/close in fire support.

It does bring up a question of why the crews for MGs in particular are so small, an early war german HMG section with two HMGs included 12 men + wagon drivers for example.

SP Infantry cannot carry mortar bombs to drop off at the company 60mm, or extra MG ammo. Thus the extra "porters" are irrelevant in game terms - just a section of riflemen who would have to hold back with the HMGs at long range (or they would go out of command control), perhaps useful as close protection of the HMG if the battle came too close - but if that is the case, you are in need of a paddle, anyway !.

The British used "head carry" portered 3in mortar batteries as artillery in Burma as well. Each battery would be carried in bits on the backs of African porters, using head-strap rigs. So a "head carried" mortar battery would have a rather large number of useless (in game terms) unarmed porters (who cannot carry the broken down mortars and the accompanying ammo - the real logistical load). Unless you made a "porter" version of an ammo carrier (but you cannot - they are vehicles which can explode), and a similar porter version of the mules... And who would use that after you had gone to all the bother?.

The AI does not understand ammo carriers in any case - it just kamikazes them forwards. What would it do, even if we had the facility to have some infantry lug support weapon ammo?. (Please try to think of an algorithm for the AI that would deal with that!). The AI would simply advance the platoon of grunts carrying the company 60mm ammo forwards as regular riflemen. (That is why the SP mortar teams have an infeasible amount of ammo, and can actually move with it BTW - in reality a medium mortar team cam manage the mortar and sights and maybe 2 rounds to bed-in with if manually carried. The ammo lives in the mortar section's light truck, or is grunt-carried by the reserve platoon in a "coolie train").

I think someone added these superfluous porters to the WW2 Japanese support weapon formations, and maybe the SCW ones like the infantry guns. But what would you do with a rifle section tacked onto a mortar platoon?. (The AI adds them to the general infantry advance, and they are thus fragile for rally).

Cheers
Andy

[void1984]

Originally Posted by runequester

Some wishlist things:
3: Rifles in MG teams
I understand the rationale for having that rifle slot in an MG team (they had a few lying around) but realistically who is actually around to fire them? The crew men would presumably be busy feeding ammo to the guns to keep them working. Especially compared to taking pot shots at 400 meters.
Wouldn't it be more realistic overall to cut the rifle slot away?
Is it just a legacy thing?

I like them as a last tool of defense. When you move or unload HMG its main MG can't fire that turn. If you are attacked, for example by a motorcycle squad you can defend with them.
Anyway those rifles don't hurt team performance, so I don't see a reason to remove them.

[Griefbringer]

Also those rifles provide the MG teams with something to defend themselves with, once they have exhausted the ammunition for their main weapons. I at least tend to try to utilise the MGs in positions where they can engage the enemy from beyond rifle range, thus mainly exhausting the MG ammunition.

I guess one could also comment about the amount of hand grenades assigned to the MG units - usually at a ratio of one grenade per man in the unit. My understanding is that MG crews were not usually too exited about lugging grenades around. But then again, in some conditions they might have wanted to have a few with them, so it probably makes sense to provide them with those grenades in the game. At least it gives them something to chuck at open topped vehicles straying too close.

[Mobryan]

[quote=Mobhack;773981]

Originally Posted by Brian61

I think someone added these superfluous porters to the WW2 Japanese support weapon formations, and maybe the SCW ones like the infantry guns. But what would you do with a rifle section tacked onto a mortar platoon?.

I just started a Japanese LC and have found that section quite useful for firebase security. There are so many chinese units running around, it's nice to have something organic to the mortars that you won't be tempted to send somewhere else.


Matt