OT: Cheaters

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Hadrian Tyrael S. Aventine:
Sadly, we are going to have to drag our morals and ethics through the dirt before they can. What I'm taking about is that we need a group of people to find these hacks and cheats for MM and help him fix them.

Well, this is already being done. It's unfortunatly way too much of what I do at PBW. But it's worth the effort IMHO.

But it doesn't require any violation of ethics on our part. You can find cheats and hacks playing games on your own computer. You don't have to do it in an actual Online multiplayer game. All that does is call your motivation into question. So my suggestion to anyone out there that feels compelled to seek out these hacks and cheats, do it in test games on your own computer, and report your findings immediately to Malfador. Don't share this knowledge with anyone in a forum. And don't do it in PBW games, under ANY circumstances, even for "testing" purposes.

Geoschmo

[Baron Munchausen]

Actually, SE IV has an advantage over the other more 'interactive' games. When you are streaming packets of game information over TCP/IP it's quite easy to snoop the interaction between the game and the client and find ways to cheat. TCP/IP was not designed to be secure, it was designed to be 'survivable' in the event of major damage to the network. Exchanging entire game files, encrypted game files, and restricting the interaction to direct processing on the host machine makes it far harder to cheat. Combine that with the fact that the SE IV fan community is a bunch of geeks who do the math and check how the game is working all the time and it's pretty hard to get something by us for long...

[disabled]

Actully, multiplayer testing for cheats would be acceptable in my mind if both parties are involved in the testing.

Of course, I rarely play multiplayer simply because of a nasty experiance I had with a cheater - that cheater later went into exile from that community as a result of the community jumping into angry-mob form and running him out.

Oh well.

It might be vindictive, but we should create a database of known cheaters labeled by IP's so we can keep an eye on them incase they return and how they cheated so that MM can fix it.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Hadrian Tyrael S. Aventine:
Actully, multiplayer testing for cheats would be acceptable in my mind if both parties are involved in the testing.

I also have no problem if people want to test multiplayer cheats in your mind. I just don't want them doing it on PBW.

If you have a cheat you want to test, and you need someone to play with you (I can't imagine why, because you can play all sides of a simultaneous game on one PC and test this stuff, but for the sake of argument) then do it via PBEM. There is no difference as far as Se4 is concerned between PBW and PBEM.

Geoschmo

[ July 18, 2002, 16:58: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[sachmo]

Originally posted by Hadrian Tyrael S. Aventine:
The only reason, and this is the only reason, is that cheaters are losers that can't stand losing. The only way for them to win, however, is to stack the deck in thier favor mid-game.

I might be misreading you Hadrian, but I don't think that's quite right. Some people cheat because they can't stand to lose. Other cheat because they don't want to take the time required to become good at a game, and want everything now. These would be the folks who run out and buy a 60th level Necromancer in Everquest. Then there are those who want to be respected. I remember the few times I would play Starcraft Online in a public room and I would watch the chat about "so and so being the bomb" and see how important ranking seemed to be to those who spent hours Online. Personally, I think it's sad to need this sort of acceptance so badly, but some people are very lonely. Then there are those who just aren't very good at certain types of games. I'll admit that RTS is not much fun for me because I am way to methodical to keep up with the pace of RTS, and if I wanted to compete with some of these kids, I would probably be forced to cheat myself! So I think there are tons of reasons that people cheat, and I apologize if I mistook your point!

[disabled]

You didin't mistake me, but to me it's always that people want to win and win now. I've seen good players turn around and cheat - just to end the game.

Of course, building up Online account stats like those for diablo and everquest then selling on ebay has always kinda seemed interesting to me as a way to make some side cash.

I know MM want's to increase thier fan base with System Wars, but I'm also afraid of the increase in cheating, hacking, and piss-poor copy-cats.

[zen.]

[soapbox mode]
I agree with Sachmo...there are many reasons why people cheat. I can understand it to an extent, for SOLO play. For example, I have a friend who used to just use cheat codes for his games, and I didn't understand why he didn't want the challenge. It wasn't until my life became too busy with a full-time job and two part-time jobs that I realized that he wanted the -experience- without putting in the time, of which he had none. Again, this is for SOLO play.

I absolutely abhor cheaters when it comes to playing other people. It's one thing to inflate your own ego, but not at the expense of others. I play on-line all the time with the FPS Team Fortress Classic, and cheaters pop-up frequently. I'm a pretty decent player, and my main trouble comes when I do a decent job suppressing (clan) players; if I do too well, I am accused of cheating. With the sensitivity of server admins of late, they automatically listen to every plebe who accuses a more skilled player of cheating.

*sigh* I remember a time before all this cheating when skill meant something.
[/soapbox mode]

zen