Does the AI use creative tactics?

Arkcon · #1 July 31st, 2002, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rollo:
This is one area where the AI cheats. It can look at stuff (ship is being retrofitted or not, planetary defenses, etc.) that a human player cannot.

Rollo

edit (after seeing Geo's post): my money is on 2

Every so often it comes up that the AI might have an advantage in detecting targets -- I once tried to gain the advantage for myself by sending a fleet to a system and turning on the attack minister.

I forget what happened exactly -- either the fleet just sat there or flew across the galaxy to attack something else.

I just feel like guessing that it's an algoritim to determine what's likely on the planet based on size and population. And if the AI knocks over the soft target, it could just be coincidence.

Someone could build a map, with two moons, same distance from the warp point, one defended and one not, one enemy ship, and see what happens.

If I tried it, the ship would probably run away for resupply and the get scrapped

Alpha Kodiak · #2 July 31st, 2002, 09:03 PM

I tend to agree with Arkon. In all of my AI testing, I have never seen anything that would indicate that the AI makes use of any information to make an intelligent attack. Instead, I have all too often watched in helpless frustration as the AI ignores an obviously soft target and wanders around aimlessly with a large fleet until it finally withdraws for resupply. In the latest Versions, it has gotten better, but by no means have I seen anything close to "intelligent".

Gandalph · #3 August 1st, 2002, 01:43 AM

I decided to test this and spent the time necessary to create a map with only 2 systems, 1 planet in 1 and 2 planets in the other, then set them both to starting points, then saved the map and started a game with it. I used a transport to divide the population evenly between the 2 target planets, (after colonizing the second planet), then decided to test with different kinds of defenses, ie mines, WP's, fighters. To shorten the story, after everything was ready for the test, I turned on all Ministers for the attacking Empire and sent the recently built Dreadnought through the warp point to see what happened. Well, the minister sent the warship back to the planet and scrapped it. So, though we still don't know the answer to the question, it has definetively been proven that THE AI IS STUPID!!!!

Ragnarok · #4 August 1st, 2002, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gandalph:
THE AI IS STUPID!!!!

You mean you had to run that test to figure this out? *tisk tisk* We could've told you that without having to run tests man.

Master Belisarius · #5 August 1st, 2002, 03:42 AM

I go for the first option...
Sorry Rollo, but I'm with Mephisto and Alpha Kodiak: I think that sometimes the AI can do some "intelligent" actions, but really is not smart. In fact, I would prefer that the SE4 AI could cheat something and then, play better.

Gandalph · #6 August 1st, 2002, 03:50 AM

OK, I have completed this test. With all else equal, I put up a minefield on planet B and the AI attacked planet B and blew up, conclusion - AI cannot see mines. Next scenario, I put 5 small WP's on planet B, AI attacked and destroyed planet A. Next scenario, I put 25 fighters on planet B, AI attacked and destroyed planet B. Last scenario, I put 50 fighters on planet B, AI attacked and destroyed Planet A. Between scenarios, I wiped out previous defenses. From this, I conclude that the AI CAN see WP's and fighters and will avoid that planet if it does not think it can win.

Arkcon · #7 August 1st, 2002, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gandalph:
[QB] Well, the minister sent the warship back to the planet and scrapped it. QB]

ROFLMAO I didn't really predict this, I've seen it before when I take over an AI that's losing just to see what it's doing, often it will make and break it's new ships immediately. Must be some hard coded algorithim -- it must want have a certain amount of planets producing resources to keep ships. Typical conflicting ministers.

Gandalph -- I gotta say thanks for doing this and the next test. I wouldnt have had the patience, but now that you see a pattern, I'm intrigued. It can see WP and fighters but not mines(we shoulda guessed that one, or it would never bungle into a mindfield -- that would be too obvious). I'm in the mood to try it out myself. Questions remain:

1). Does it always find the right planet, or is there some ramdomness. Or is there some other rule, how nice the planet is, how close a planet is to it's homeworld, what direction the ship was traveling, etc?

2). So it can count fighters in cargo. If it can see the difference between 50 and 20, can it see the diference between 20 and 25, 20 and 21? Could this just be a non-obvious bug -- it should be able to count fighters in orbit, maybe MM did'nt put in a flag to hide this info when they are cargo? Does it care about small medium large shielded armored fighters or would a ton of cockpits and life support fighters keep a planet safe?

3). What can it see of the weapon platforms. What's it more afraid of large full of armor and point defence vs mediums with engine destroyers?

4). Obviusly it can see sats in orbit, but how about cloaked ones?

If I'm bored enought this weekend I'll try some of these