Conceptual Balance Mod v1.92

[Valerius]

Originally Posted by Shangrila00

Death battlemagic needs D3s and 1/4 is too few for serious death battlemagic.

Well, I think you have to do a peer comparison and in the MA the leading death nations (Ermor, C'tis, Shin) all max out at D3 (outside of the 1 in 40 chance of D4 with their 10% randoms). Now you have to take the total package into account when judging a nation: Ermor has its free spawn, C'tis has its miasma, Shin has its excellent battle magic and Ashdod has its SCs/thugs. If Ashdod didn't have something "extra" like the other nations I could maybe see boosting their magic but given the context I don't really see a case for Ashdod to have higher levels of D magic.

Really, the more I think about it, the more I think changing zamzummite's magic paths is a bad idea (the armor change seems fine, though). I think Ashdod is a solid nation that there isn't a need to ban or dogpile and that's a good change both for people playing other nations and for people who want to play Ashdod.

[Shangrila00]

Ermor is a communion nation, and Shinuyama's a nation with battlemagic and death magic, not a nation whose battlemagic is death magic. MA C'tis, I admit is a nation I've never figured out how to play. Thematically speaking, MA is when C'tis turned away from necromancy and when Hinnom/Ashdod/Gath turned to necromancy, so it makes sense that Ashdod's would be better.

In any case, every age must logically have a single strongest nation. For MA, I'm pretty sure that's Pythium, before and after Ashdod got nerfed. Even if Ashdod was the strongest nation in the MA, that's not reason in and of itself to nerf it (remember we are talking a unit that was nerfed and whether that's justified, not whether a unit should be buffed). Only tactics that cannot reasonably be countered at an equal skill level would be that (and I agree turn 2 0 fatigue Adons are that), and common D3s are definitely not overpowering. If simply being second strongest is reason for nerfing to middle of the pack, that would just result in endless shuffling to no purpose.

[Valerius]

Originally Posted by Shangrila00

Ermor is a communion nation, and Shinuyama's a nation with battlemagic and death magic, not a nation whose battlemagic is death magic. MA C'tis, I admit is a nation I've never figured out how to play. Thematically speaking, MA is when C'tis turned away from necromancy and when Hinnom/Ashdod/Gath turned to necromancy, so it makes sense that Ashdod's would be better.

In any case, every age must logically have a single strongest nation. For MA, I'm pretty sure that's Pythium, before and after Ashdod got nerfed. Even if Ashdod was the strongest nation in the MA, that's not reason in and of itself to nerf it (remember we are talking a unit that was nerfed and whether that's justified, not whether a unit should be buffed). Only tactics that cannot reasonably be countered at an equal skill level would be that (and I agree turn 2 0 fatigue Adons are that), and common D3s is definitely not overpowering.

Thematically, you can always argue things different ways but I don't see a thematic reason for Ashdod to have stronger D magic than the rest of them.

As for the other aspects of nations, another thing Ashdod has (like other giant nations) is commanders that won't crumble under a casting of rain of stones or flames from the sky. I think we'll just have to disagree on this as I don't see those other nations "extras" as being superior to Ashdod's and I do think giving Ashdod common D3s is a mistake. Now I'm certainly not going to say that kianduatha's idea of maybe a 25% chance of an ED random is a disaster but giving a 50% chance of just D as you propose is IMO a mistake.

Btw, I don't think things are so well defined that each age has (or should have) a single strongest nation - I think there's a top tier. And as I mentioned recently I'm certainly not looking to nerf all those top nations. But if a single nation stands out as head and shoulders above the rest then, yes, nerf it.

I think we just look at it from different perspectives. You want Ashdod to resume their former position (with a proviso that they shouldn't be able to run over people early on) whereas I think they're a solid, playable nation that no longer changes the game just based on their presence and that's a good change.