Cold War scenarios pre 1980

[Aeraaa]

This is a question I've always had in my mind when I started playing post WW2 games. Why all hypothetical cold war games/scenarios/books whatever always are about a conflict set in the 80ies? Is it because the OOBs are more detailed in this period? Is it because the coolest equipment starts around then? Is it because there's a greater chance that the war will remain conventional? Whatever the reasons are I find it weird that the early Cold War period is rarely touched and I must say it's actually my favourite period to see hypothetical scenarios. The main reason for that is because this era seems like a mixture of WW2 armies trying to cope with new emerging technology. You can find the odd T34 facing ATGMs for example. Mass artillery and infantry trying to break entrenched enemies only to be repelled by the recently fielded main battle tanks. Not every army is fully mechanised at that point, so you can still find large formations. On the other hand, 80ies scenarios look a lot like modern era ones, it's just that the Soviets were a more worthy opponent for a conventional war. Your thoughts about that?

PS: I'm not sure my post actually belongs to that subforum, so feel free to move it if you think otherwise...

[Oche]

Originally Posted by Aeraaa

This is a question I've always had in my mind when I started playing post WW2 games. Why all hypothetical cold war games/scenarios/books whatever always are about a conflict set in the 80ies? Is it because the OOBs are more detailed in this period? Is it because the coolest equipment starts around then? Is it because there's a greater chance that the war will remain conventional? Whatever the reasons are I find it weird that the early Cold War period is rarely touched and I must say it's actually my favourite period to see hypothetical scenarios. The main reason for that is because this era seems like a mixture of WW2 armies trying to cope with new emerging technology. You can find the odd T34 facing ATGMs for example. Mass artillery and infantry trying to break entrenched enemies only to be repelled by the recently fielded main battle tanks. Not every army is fully mechanised at that point, so you can still find large formations. On the other hand, 80ies scenarios look a lot like modern era ones, it's just that the Soviets were a more worthy opponent for a conventional war. Your thoughts about that?

PS: I'm not sure my post actually belongs to that subforum, so feel free to move it if you think otherwise...

I agree, most cold war scenarios are set in the 80s, but my favorite period for hypothetical scenarios is 50-70s too. I think that people tend to choose the 80s and onwards because of the equipment that rolls in that period rather than the detailed OOBs. This game engine provides so much field to create such scenarios that replay value must be unlimited. It provides the opportunity of "simulating" almost any conflict. I still plan to create myself many more cold war scenarios (and expect to see others too ) between those time periods, but normal life interfers with my long Steel Panthers experience. Best wargame series ever.

[Mobhack]

I think is the M1/Bradley and thermals thing since most cold war stuff seems to be the USA killing off "Commie Hordes" in the 1980s just before the break-up of the USSR.

In the 80s, the NATO forces have a marked superiority with the new model MBT with thermals, Milan missiles with Thermals, TOW vehicles and helos and even APC with (yawn) ATGM and thermals. And most of this stuff quite happily kills the Soviet kit with frontal shots. Plus MLRS as well, and cluster bomb armed jets with decent ECM too. So relatively little thought is therefore required by the player. Blanket the battlefield in smoke or fight at night and pick off the green dots appearing on the VDU, basically. No need to bother with manoeuvres. So 80s scenarios as NATO are nice and easy for players who perhaps just want to shoot stuff up without too much danger to their own toys?.

If you do scenarios in the 70s with the M60 etc, then the Soviets have a reasonably fair chance against you, and in the late 70s with the emergence of laminate armours, maybe a slight superiority to 105mm armed MBT which will have to (shock, horror! ) manoeuvre to the sides for reliable kills. No thermals to use to pick them off while they are blind to you, and their Saggers can cause you fits especially on battlefields with decent visibility. Heck, I got a lot of my chieftains slotted by T80B models in one late 70s campaign - as they had TI and I only had IR and it was night... So the player needs to apply some thought.

Roll back to the 90mm gun M48 era, and the American player really does have a bit of thinking to do as he does not have the TOW and Dragons - in fact he may have to rely on the 106mm RCL, and the 90mm teams. And some NATO armies in that era may find that it's the Soviets that have the night fighting advantage as well. I find playing USA in the 60s era a fun challenge since you actually do have to apply tactics with the 90mm tanks, and cannot simply rely on air power as the ZSU-23-4 and grail appear on the scene.

Myself - I tend to limit myself to the early 70s and before in long campaigns (I tend not to play scenarios as they are a play once and never load it again thing. I don't fit the reload a scenario and try to do it better this time school - once played I know what is where etc, so it is no longer interesting. Battle generator for a quick once-off or the LC for something longer term). Currently fighting a 1960 10 battle British v Warpact game. T54 here will pick off centurions on occasion at long range with their 100mm HEAT. 20pdr centurions are seriously outclassed frontally at 1000m+ until they do run out of HEAT.

So - probably 80s as nice and easy to play and win, and USA as most scenario designers are from the left side of the pond and are designing for the majority of players, who are also from there too?.

cheers
Andy

[centurion77]

personaly, I prefer 50's - 60's cold war games, a bit more "credible" than the 80's and more of a challange.
I would like to see more

[Oche]

IMHO The latest revisions of WINSPMBT have made the battles after 1970s more challenging, effective counterbattery for offmap arty, infantry being "tougher", the minimum required firing distance for some ATGM systems, ERA armor, the anti ATGM system in some tanks, etc.

[Suhiir]

I'd say the TOW (1972) and Dragon (1975) are MAJOR turning points in the "comparison of forces" equation.
The introduction of thermal sights really swings things in favor of NATO (read the U.S.A.).

That said, I've played around a bit with 1960's-70's battles vs the Soviets and usually get steamrollered. But that's no real surprise since I've been trying to use the USMC and they're NOT equipped, or intended, to take on armor heavy opposition (at least till the introduction of the AH-1T).