German OOB 16 Corrections/Suggestions

[sturmovik]

I am once again updating my custom OB pack and I am actually quite pleased that some of the suggestions/corrections I made back in 2009/10 made it into the v5 set so I figured I would make some more as they are still fresh in my mind. Please forgive me if I somehow fail to follow the suggestion procedure. Also if any of these were in fact included, but I just missed them please let me know.

Panzerkampfwagen II mit Schwimmkörper (aka Schwimmpanzer II): Amphibious Pz II developed for operation Sea lion and then used on the eastern front.

Panzer II Ausf. G : Basically a hybrid between an F and Lynx with an EW 141 main weapon that started appearing in late 41. 12 built, none apparently used in combat, but that's more that can be said for a lot of other vehicles currently in the list.

Panzer II Ausf. J : Think Panzer II G meets Panzer I F. Infantry support tank with thicker armour , but same 2cm Kwk. 22 built between 4/42 and 12/42 and were deployed to eastern front and Normandy. This would be a must include.

Flakpanzer 1: Panzer 1 with 20mm Flak gun on it. Fought in and around Stalingrad.

Panzer 38(t) Ausf G: Last 38(t) production variant with thicker turret side armor and possibly reduced ammunition load.

Munitionsträger Hummel : Ammo carrier based on a Hummel chassis that was designed to accompany Hummel units. 150 built. Might be included with formation changes.

Kugelblitz: Hot SP-AA vehicle on Pz IV chassis. Apparently some did see service at the very very end of the war.

Waffentrager 88: I have a picture of a Flak 18 gun on what looks like a Pz IId chassis and 10 years ago when I was researching the unit I remember it was referred to as a Waffentrager 88. All I have left from that research is the SP unit I created from it, but there is a picture so something existed.

Panzer III Ammo Carrier: A number of Pz III's had their turrets removed and were used as ammo carriers on the eastern front. They were called something line Munitiontrager III. Would be a nice to have if there is space.

VG 44 aka Gustloff Volkssturmgewehr: Magazine fed 7.93x33 carbine issued in 1945 to VG units. 10,000 made. Would be nice to see in some of the many VG units, but weapons slots are at a premium.

Those are my suggestions. Again I apologize if these have been discussed before.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by sturmovik

Panzer 38(t) Ausf G: Last 38(t) production variant with thicker turret side armor and possibly reduced ammunition load.

A source for that information would be helpful. The only difference in armour I can find between the E and G is the upper and lower hull front and turret front is one solid piece of 50mm armour instead of 25+25 with the result that there are fewer bolts on frontal plate, turret and engine deck.

Nothing about additional turret side armour so lets hear what you have on that ....

Don

[sturmovik]

Since all the current online records indicate that the G has effectively the same armour as the E I'll believe that over something I read on a website 10 years ago, but I might try looking through my paper records. I suspect the references to the G's extra armour was simply comparing it to the D.

[cbo]

Originally Posted by DRG

A source for that information would be helpful. The only difference in armour I can find between the E and G is the upper and lower hull front and turret front is one solid piece of 50mm armour instead of 25+25 with the result that there are fewer bolts on frontal plate, turret and engine deck.

Nothing about additional turret side armour so lets hear what you have on that ....

Don

Chamberlain & Doyle (Encyclopedia.....) says the same thing as does Spielberger in his book on Czech armour.

[Pibwl]

114 Panzerbuechse - there were 568 PzB 39 in 9/39 available (now starts at 1/40). There is only #250 FJg PzBuechse available from 7/39, but I don't think, that they were used by paratroops only then (and the paras generally weren't fighting in Poland at all)

BTW, the weapon could be better named just PzB 39, not 38/39 - 38 was a semi-auto weapon, which wasn't finally accepted and found very limited use, while PzB 39 was a different mass-produced weapon. Since they aren't available before 1939, there's no need to bother with marginal PzB 38, developed before 1939.

Maybe it's a good idea to rename "Panzerbuechse" units to indicate PzB model?

318 15.2cm Batterie - I'll attach proper picture of Soviet M-10 howitzer (now it's late-war D-1)

335 4.5cm PaK 184/1 - it has a picture of short-barrel gun. A proper picture for long barrel 45 mm is eg. Pm29366

346 MG08/18 MMG Grp - has first availability date later, than second

425 PzSpw.AB 41 - it would be worth to find a photo of specific German one. I'm attaching one proposal.

434 SdKfz 8 - current picture is SdKfz 7, what is evident by spoked wheels. I'm attaching a proposal.

467 PzKw T38 732(r) - the picture is actually T-37

495 GebJg PzBuechse - picture used in the game for 13.2mm ATR is 309 (I'm not sure however, if it's not PzB-39) - now it's probably 20 mm Solothurn. I'm attaching alternative 309 picture of 13.2mm Mauser.

570 PzKpfw Ia - it's a matter of months, and Jentz does not write clearly here, but starting date 7/34 is too optimistic - seems, that none were operational before 1/35 (first armoured divisions were being created during 1935. It might affect formations.

586, 587 P174/178 L204f - AFAIK there was no such car, as Panhard 174, just 178, and its German designation was for sure P204(f). I think, that German designation "P204(f)" should be enough, or "Panhard P204f". I'm attaching German pictures to replace generic one.

600 Panzerbuechse - picture - same as 495 above - now it's PzB-39. I'm attaching alternative 309 picture of 13.2mm Mauser.

BTW, what's a difference between weapons #142 Mauser T-Gewehr used by unit 600 and #90 13.2mm Mauser used by unit 417?.. AFAIK it is the same weapon.

601 Panzerbuechse - proper picture for Polish wz.35 AT rifle is 23510 (current 115 is PTRS - same situation in Polish oob)

603 Pzbuechse SS - correct weapon's designation is PzB M.SS.41, not MPzB 41

604 Ost Pzbuechse - picture should be Russian PTRD (eg. 23151 or 27105)

605 Ost Pzbuechse - pictures should be Russian PTRS (eg. 23150 or 27106).

734, 793 MG249(p) HMG - I can't find such designation, but if it's Polish wz.30 Browning (what suggests letter "p"), then picture 29695 would be more appropriate (now it's Vickers).

817 4.5cm PaK 184/1 - as unit 335 - proper picture for long barrel 45 mm is Pm29366

834 PzKw IIa/b - photo 27513 shows later variant, not initial a/b (small letters), which had six small roadwheels on a frame (there were later variants A/B with standard chassis, but availability dates suggest earlier ones)

842 SdKfz ADGZ - ADGZ is never used with "SdKfz" (which was used with numers only, btw). It could be names Steyr ADGZ (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steyr_ADGZ )

867, 868 630(r)3.7cm PaK - should be 630(f) (French) (or just UE instead of number)

875 sFH 13 LrS (f) - it has apparently picture of Marder I - could be just 0032 instead, or new picture with grey camo
(It should be armed with 15cm sFH-13 howitzer, with longer range, than sIG-33 infantry gun).

577, 939 PzKw B-2 740(f) - actually "B2" without "-".

925, 926 Do 17E, 17P - new picture of this "flying pencil" would ne nice - now it's late-war Do 217. I'm attaching a proposal.

927, 928 Do 17Z - I'm attaching a proposal picture for Do-17Z - now it's late-war Do 217

954 Pz T34a 747(r) - picture is T34b with F-34 gun, not earlier one with L-11 gun. I'm attaching a proposal in German service.

968 sIG38/2 (t) - according to Jentz's Panzer Tracts, apparently only one experimantal vehicle was produced. And it was open-topped.

976 sIG38/1 (t) - according to Jentz, it was produced only from 12/43 - now 5/43 (earlier there was older rear-engined model). This source recognizes old and new model as "Gw 38 fur sIG33/1" and "Gw 38M fur sIG33/2" respectively, or Grille and "Grille ausf K". In short could be "Gw38M sIG33/2" or Grille K.

978 SturmIG 33B - German short designation was StuIG 33 (without B)

997 Horch Kfz.70 - picture is Krupp Protze (Kfz.70)

Regards

[Pibwl]

Only a small clarification:

Originally Posted by Pibwl

978 SturmIG 33B - German short designation was StuIG 33 (without B)

Encyclopedia of German tanks calls it StuIG 33B, but in definite Panzer Tracts Jentz refers to it just as Sturminfanteriegeschuetz 33.