IDF OOB project.

[DRG]

No, it doesn't seem so, I've only just been looking them over quickly before putting them on the list but all in all it's looks good

Don

[gingertanker]

THE LAST TANK

Okey now we get into the Merkava 4...I am aware that alot of work has been done by others here.

I do have some ideas though, here they are:

Units 067 and 068 Merkava Mk 4

Ammo load should be 50 for main gun.

Unit 069 Merkava Mk4b
* AFAIK and according to most hebrew sources this should be named Merkava Mk4M (again Meshupar=Improved).
*More importantly, the changes made to fit the LAHAT have screwed up the weapons on this unit. The coaxial on Merkava 4, as with all IDF tanks, is the 7.62mm FN-MAG/M240. The 12.7mm is an optional coaxial. If we must choose one, I would go with the real, internal coaxial(this is true for unit 066 as well, I missed it).
*ammo load aside from the LAHAT should be increased to 44 total.
*I think that a identical unit without the LAHAT should be made. but this is just my opinion. To allow the use of Merk 4 with CIWS but no LAHAT.

Two Mk4 units are currently missing:
* Merkava Mk4TWMP
*Obsolete tank unit for Mk4. Availability should be from ~2006 all the way to 2020.

[gingertanker]

APCs

Unit 081 M3 Halftrack This should be around untill the early 1990s. I Saw these in a reserve unit with my own very young but at that time still sharp eyes when I was 3 or 4...So 1992~ they were still around. Suggest new end date of 1993.

Unit 572 M3 Halftrack Same goes for this.

Unit 083 Bardelass This is the vanilla M113, and still exists(sadly enough for our brave mech infantry) to this day in some standing and reserve units. End date should be 2020 really, we have so many we will never rid of them.

Unit 097 Namer MICV RWS This is still not in service AFAIK, and I don't see it happening anytime soon. Specifically the 30mm and Spike...This just is not how IDF infantry like to roll, they would need serious boosts to the ordnance platoons in their battalions as well as a major increase in time spent training with AFVs(they hate AFVs). For the foreseeable future IDF infantry will have nothing larger than the 12.7mm/40mm AGL on its RWS...



That is it for today. See you soon

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I just have a quick thought here. I tried to get the 60mm Mortars in while researchimg the Turkish M60T which led me back to the MERKAVA. Do we delete tank rounds for what we know is a real life issue (To make room for the 60mm ammo.) when we are game limited to the weapons slots we have availble? I seem to remember when this was brought up I was asked whether we should give up a MG for the 60mm mortar. My answer then was basically keep the MG as it was a better direct support weapon against infantry (I do remember being "coached" to think about it, must have been that Submariner thing? ). We might need a game comprimise here as the 60mm mortar cuts across the whole MERKAVA spectrum pretty much.
Ammo loads have always been an issue to some degree depending on sources and have been known to cross the "PITA Line" here at times.

Great Work!

Regards,
Pat

[gingertanker]

Pat,

I really think the 60mm is best left alone. I have said before, there is no way to model the Merks weapons fully in game. you would need 7 weapon slots:
1)main gun
2)7.62 coax
3)12.7 upper coax
4)TC 7.62mg
5)Loader 7.62 mg(aside from mk4)
6)60mm mortar
7)WP smoke dischargers used as a weapon(major thing against close range inf)

It just cant be done. Worse still, the 60mm is not just on merks! Some magachs and some Tirans(!) had them as well, mounted externally.

The truth is the 60mm is not meant to be used as a direct fire LOS weapon. it is meant exactly for when you don't want to be in LOS. It cant be done well in game.

As far as ammo loads, there is no issue, the ammo loads i specified are accurate to tanks carrying the 60mm and its ammo.


Honestly I think the solution for the merkava series should be:
Slot 1: Main gun
Slot 2: 7.62mm CMG
Slot 3: 12.7mm CMG
Slot 4: 2X7.62 AAMG/7.62mm AAMG

And what do you know, thats the way it is with most of them...If anything I might have an issue with older tanks having 12.7mm AAMGs on them, as the IDF usually(read always) preferred the 0.3 for both commander and loader.

Amit.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Amit,
Trust me I fully agree. Just pointing out the fact you recommended a main gun ammo reduction for one of the Merk 1 inputs provided because of the storage requirments to store 60mm mortar rounds unless, I misread the item (I believe it was the 2nd MERK 1 item down.) it just puts a ? on the issue of anyones (That means me as well.) ammo sources that does not specifically break them down by type and weapon for any OOB such issue.

So again should we reduce main gun ammo (5 or 6 rounds) for a weapon we can't even "enter" (Slot limitations.) or use? All I'm saying is in our AOR we didn't get the tanks with the mortars and need our AT/HE main gun rounds to meet our tactical needs. Sorry that was the best analogy I could come up with at the moment.

Regards,
Pat

[gingertanker]

no no, you did not misread.

I think that we should use what we think the ammo load is IRL. On the tanks that carry mortar. Just to be as close to RL as possible. Honestly Merks are such powerful units I doubt 4-6 rounds less will unbalance anything.

Amit.