spob20 Yugoslavia corrections/suggestions

[zastava128]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

I guess, that since they are infantry tanks, they shouldn't be slower, than infantry, which actually runs in the game

So, I think, that we need three tanks: FT MG-armed, FT gun-armed and M.28 gun-armed. Do you know, if M.28 was their official designation? They are usually described in sources as M.26/27 or M.27/28 or NC-2 and nobody seems to know what is correct.

By the way: a proper picture for MG-armed 001 FT is eg. 27560.

Correct, those three versions you mention were used. Official designation was M.28 - I'm 100% sure of this.

By the way, an interesting thing I just noticed is that the Germans captured some of the T-32s and they received the designation "PzKpfW 732 (j)". It's the first time I see a weapon with the "j" (jugoslawisch) designation. Unfortunately there's no space in the German OOB for them... And nobody seems to know where the Germans deployed them - they were no longer in Yugoslavia when the Germans surrendered in 1945, and there are no reports mentioning they were ever deployed in Yugoslavia.

[zastava128]

And for my final contribution, some .lbm files for Yugoslavia. I've tried them and they work fine in my game. Readme file is in the archive and details what they're meant to replace (for the infantry that is; the vehicles and arty should be obvious).

Attachment 12636

(yes, most of the SMGs are actually Sten guns, but I couldn't find any *good* photo of a SMG squad armed with PPSh-41s)

[Pibwl]

To be precise, a Polish tankette is TK-3 (TK).

I'm interested in Polish stuff - do you know, how many were acquired, and if they were TK-3 or also TKS?

BTW: I like an artillery observer

[zastava128]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

To be precise, a Polish tankette is TK-3 (TK).

I'm interested in Polish stuff - do you know, how many were acquired, and if they were TK-3 or also TKS?

BTW: I like an artillery observer

Sorry, I missed your post for some reason.

Well the most recent book on the subject (see the original post) claims they were TKS... but then on one of the photos it's marked as a TK-3.

Local reports always simply call them "Ursus", which is why some older literature assume Croatia had Ursus Armoured Cars - but this has since been disproved.

Anyway there were around 16-20 such tankettes in Croatian service. Some sources mention 18, others say 16 + 4 for spare parts etc.

They don't appear to have seen as much action as the L3 tankettes, and none of them were captured by the partisans until near the very end of the war. Those that were captured were not used in battle anymore, but only for training.

-----------------

If Don is reading this, I missed something in the original list: Desant teams (Tankodesants). Should be available from 3/45 onwards. Armament and organization was identical to their Soviet counterparts, except that there were no PPSh-43 and RPG-43.

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by zastava128

Well the most recent book on the subject (see the original post) claims they were TKS... but then on one of the photos it's marked as a TK-3.

The tankette on the photo http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/577/048ip.jpg is for sure TK-3 (also known as TK). Or, more precisely, it might be a sub-model TKF (late TK-3 with TKS suspension, as a tankette in Belgrad museum), but it's hard to say.

Michal

[zastava128]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

The tankette on the photo http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/577/048ip.jpg is for sure TK-3 (also known as TK). Or, more precisely, it might be a sub-model TKF (late TK-3 with TKS suspension, as a tankette in Belgrad museum), but it's hard to say.

Michal

I had a look at your website to help identify the tankettes, and from what I can tell they all seem to be either TK-3 or TKF. There are two sets of relevant photos in the book I mentioned: one shows three of them driving through a village, the other show seven (from a different unit) lined up for review. Of course, that does leave another 6-10 unaccounted for.

Nice site, btw.

Oh, and that photo of the TKS on your site - it's probably a propaganda photo as you suspected. The camo scheme is quite different from that used by all other Croatian tanks, and the "redarstvena straža" - I assume this refers to the Croatian "oružništvo" (gendarmes), not the German Ordnungspolizei - generally had worse equipment than the other branches of the armed forces. So I don't think they would have gotten the more modern tankettes when the Ustaše and Home Guard used the older model.

[Pibwl]

One more thing:
075 76.2mm AT-Gun - has a picture of PAK-40, should be 30502 IF it is L51 indeed.

However, as for all 76L51 guns (units 020, 055, 066, 075) I'd rather expect, that they are standard late war ZiS-3 M1942 L41 - weapon 60 from Soviet OOB, with range corrected to 203 (real 13.3).
Correct picture then is 14139 (used for unit 282 in Soviet oob, but very unclear) or Polish 29377 or 101.

Michal

[DRG]

Originally Posted by zastava128

And for my final contribution, some .lbm files for Yugoslavia. I've tried them and they work fine in my game. Readme file is in the archive and details what they're meant to replace (for the infantry that is; the vehicles and arty should be obvious).

Attachment 12636

(yes, most of the SMGs are actually Sten guns, but I couldn't find any *good* photo of a SMG squad armed with PPSh-41s)

I probably won't be starting work on the Yugo OOB until after Christmas and as much as I would like to use the LBM's most are , to be honest, not salvageable, but if you can give me links to where you found them I can start fresh with the originals unless you have the originals on file and if you do we can work out a transfer.

Don

[zastava128]

Originally Posted by DRG

I probably won't be starting work on the Yugo OOB until after Christmas and as much as I would like to use the LBM's most are , to be honest, not salvageable, but if you can give me links to where you found them I can start fresh with the originals unless you have the originals on file and if you do we can work out a transfer.

Don

Very well, here's the links. I've found some additional/better photos in the meantime.

Ustase militia
http://forum.axishistory.com/downloa....php?id=102343
http://forum.axishistory.com/downloa....php?id=102349
http://i48.tinypic.com/2rxie79.jpg

Ustase Ansaldo
http://forum.axishistory.com/downloa....php?id=131516

Ustase TK-3 (not TKS as I originally thought...)
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/577/048ip.jpg

Ustase PzKW I
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/3985/pz1tranpm3di3.jpg

Ustase L6/40
http://i52.tinypic.com/3583wba.jpg
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtop...97186&start=30

Ustase PzKw IV F1
http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/3...kwf20iv4vb.jpg

Partisan Autoblinda 41
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/5563/blinda2ajs7.jpg

Partisan AEC MKII
http://stef124.tripod.com/Aec-3.jpg
or
http://stef124.tripod.com/Aec-2.jpg

Various Cetnik infantry:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...tnici_1944.jpg
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/524...nicetnici2.jpg
http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/7562/zzzzeo.jpg
http://i35.piczo.com/view/2/b/v/9/6/...2809_46078.gif
http://s017.radikal.ru/i419/1203/11/f83ca4ccaab5.jpg
http://www.shotgunnews.com/files/201...hetniks.02.jpg

Partisan Schwarzlose HMG
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...vnica_1944.jpg

Partisan T-34/76
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/f...01945/a001.jpg
or
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/f...-34_hex_94.jpg

Partisan T-34/85
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/yugoslav...t_34_85_01.jpg

Forward Observer
http://www.barikada.com/slike04/yugo...kovacevic1.jpg

Partisan Hetzer
http://www.mycity-military.com/imgs2...6_hetzer-3.JPG

Partisan L6/40
http://oklop2.tripod.com/fiatl6-1.jpg
or
http://www.ratnakronikasplita.com/sl...ja_tenkova.jpg

Partisan L3 tankette
http://oklop2.tripod.com/fiat-1.jpg

Partisan M7 Priest
http://www.oklop.net23.net//m7/m7-3.jpg

Partisan M8 Scott
http://stef124.tripod.com/m-8how.jpg
or
http://stef124.tripod.com/m8-1how.jpg

Partisan PIAT
http://www.mycity-military.com/slika..._john_bull.JPG

Partisan M15/42
http://www.paluba.info/smf/index.php...h=268431;image

Partisan H39
http://www.mycity-military.com/imgs2...7580_h39-9.jpg

Partisan scout
http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/q...plitvice-1.jpg

Partisan 81mm Mortar
http://24.media.tumblr.com/3972074df...oy9ro1_500.jpg

Various Partisans (1941 to 1944)
-basically, these can replace the pics of any of the following units: 42, 45, 87, 115, 118, 122
http://tacno.net/wp-content/uploads/...8455350905.jpg
http://www.jutarnji.hr/multimedia/ar...i_227159S1.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ka_brigada.JPG
http://makarska-post.com/wp-content/.../partizani.jpg
http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/...vPartisans.jpg
http://forum.axishistory.com/download/file.php?id=74882

Yugoslav Army 1945
-these can replace the pics of any of the following units: 47, 48, 81, 82
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n...COURTHOUSE.jpg
http://www.radiosarajevo.ba/upload/i...evo_6april.jpg
http://globus.jutarnji.hr/incoming/2...eb1-1-copy.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...X/Scan0018.jpg
http://www.mladina.si/media/www/slik...ec_display.jpg
http://www.evarazdin.hr/cms/wp-conte...ni-485x273.jpg

Partisan cavalry
http://www.mycity-military.com/imgs2...Leskovac...jpg

Partisan M1 Pack Howitzer
http://forum.axishistory.com/download/file.php?id=75748

Partisan Breda AA
http://forum.axishistory.com/download/file.php?id=87983

Partisan Hurricane IV
http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/x...psc0db82a0.jpg

Partisan Spitfire V
http://www.forgottenairfields.com/up...ne/04_Kane.jpg
or
http://aces.safarikovi.org/victories...ugoslavia1.jpg

Partisan Spitfire IX
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/769...unikvi1945.jpg

Partisan Il-2 (this photo is from just after the end of the war - during the war they still had Soviet markings)
http://www.mycity-military.com/imgs/...so%201945..jpg


I'm attaching several more that can't be found online to the zip file below. Some may not be good enough but I'm afraid that's the only usable ones I found (others either have lots of soldiers on them, are partly obscured etc.).


A couple of photos (Breda MG, Oerlikon AA, BA-64) are MIA. They'll probably have to wait for version 7.0

[zastava128]

One comment I forgot, related to the pictures for SMG and engineer squads.

I couldn't really find a photo of a Yugoslav SMG squad with PPsh-41, but the current OOB has a Soviet soldier - who looks rather out of place (the Yugoslav Army didn't use helmets, for a start). Ditto for the engineers.

So if you don't want to use one of the photos provided above,
my suggestion would be to use:

LBM 21034 for units 48 and 82
LBM 14009 for unit 52