Helicopter armor

[Mobhack]

Because as discussed many a time and oft - if there is any damage to a plane then it may well fall out of the sky without notice. Pilots really don't like that idea at all, so they RTB as soon as they can. Only the wrench wallahs can look at the thing and determine if the damage needs down time in the maintenance hangar.

Its a basic design element of the SP engine, and aint going to change whatsoever. A damaged flying machine = RTB.

So if your helo gets plinked, then drop the passengers or fire at what you can before the pilot decides to scarper.

Andy

[gila]

Yay that,
What people seem to forget,is the rotor or blades have no armour just a nick on the blades throws off the balance and makes it highly unstable to fly,and any major damage to the rear rotor it spins to the ground.

[Suhiir]

I'm sure many of you have heard this before - A pilot once told me a helo is nothing more then 100,000 parts flying in close formation, and 90% of them vital to it staying airborne.

In my tests for my OOB variant I've fooled around with adding 1 armor to all helos and increasing the armor on attack types. It does reduce their vulnerability but once they get damaged it's all over.
It may help to think of them as aerial trucks rather then APC's.
If you expose trucks loaded with troops to fire, any fire, you're going to be very unhappy with the result.

[sabresandy]

I'm fine with helis retreating if they take damage; in that case, then, it looks like the focus will be on fine-tuning the code for helicopter armor so that they don't take damage from small arms so often. Agreed or not?

[gila]

Originally Posted by sabresandy

I'm fine with helis retreating if they take damage; in that case, then, it looks like the focus will be on fine-tuning the code for helicopter armor so that they don't take damage from small arms so often. Agreed or not?

Look up at posts 3 and 13

[sabresandy]

Hey, now, the discussion did take a detour on the whole "evasive maneuvers" issue and another one on whether or not helis would retreat when damaged or not. For all intents and purposes there were three related issues under discussion.

[gila]

Sorry,i meant the issue should be looked at.
As Suhir pointed to,helos are not flying tanks,but rather delicate an vunerable.
Easier to shoot down than than low level fixed winged air units and much slower.
They don't always take damage when hit,are you just pushing them a bit much?
I would suppose any pilot flying into intense small arms fire would evade as modeled in game.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I will expand upon this elsewhere but for where I'm at between two projects right now I believe this article fits this thread for now. Though this article covers a lot of ground it does address the concerns of the USMC about the HIND and it's overall assessment to defeat it and the Soviet helicopter threat overall on the battlefield and thus addresses by default most of the issues brought up in this thread to include at least on the Soviet side how the USMC perceived how their pilots would operate based on their combat performance to date of this paper. It is an honest evaluation of the CORPS ability to fight in this environment. Sorry but, yes this will require some reading.
The HIND has been around a few years now and the USMC was just getting their AH-1W COBRA gunships. Ground support would soon follow with the LAV-AD that was designed to be a close air support system and HIND killer. HIND protection level at this time was 12.7mm all angle protection on the fuselage, 35mm protection around the cockpit and bullet proof cockpit glass. This from 1988...
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...t/1988/ZMD.htm

Regards,
Pat

[paulo]

Its my understanding that helos are only supposed to be used at a distance beyond small arms fire and RPGs. Look up videos on youtube re American helos engaging insurgents- its always at a great distance. Helos buzzing and strafing ground troops at close range is Hollywood stuff

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I submit this with the utmost RESPECT. However...
I'll be sure to tell that to the guys that flew in Vietnam or currently in Afghanistan. Video provides but the smallest glimpse of reality. One thing dictates all, the terrain in which you find yourself operating in and that goes for helos as well. That applies to helos as well. In the books on the Indochina War-"Hell in a Very Small Place" , "Valley of Death" -Vietnam-"Black-Horse Riders", "We Were Young and Soldiers Once" -Somalia-"Blackhawk Down" -Afganistan- "The Outpost", if you have read any of these or a combination of them I feel most people would reverse themselves on the RTB issue somewhat have a better understanding of helicopter operations in general. In the "The Outpost" are numerous accounts from the soldiers who were on the ground on on the close in air support of APACHE helos and MEDEVAC helos in getting the dead and wounded out. The book covers OPS in the Kamdesh District (COP KEATING and surrounding area.) in the Hindu Kush region of NE Afgnanistan near the Pakistani border. This is not normal operating territory for the helo where the "rebels" many times have the "higher higher ground" giving them a "look down shoot down" advantage at times against helos and most of the time against the troops in this area.
I gained a deep respect for helicopter pilots to the point of emotion, concerning the French crews that were volunteering until the high command suspended helo ops (and Air crews that continued to fly supply, reinforcements and air support as well.) into Dien Bien Phu which had at that time the largest concentration of AA since WWII Germany. Back then helos as compared to their modern brethren might as well have painted the bullseye on them but, yet they kept flying and dying to get the wounded out of there. That's what you get from a good history book or living through it yourself and seeing it. All above provide many, many first hand accounts of both main helo ops yet that's not what the above books were about but, but what the soldiers recounted in the above books about them. Think about that for a few minutes.
And to be fair I haven't forgotten about the helo ops of the British in Maylasia and Falklands or the Russians in Afghanistan under combat situations, there are histories and stories there as well.
We don't generalize about how tanks operate in the game as we have a long history of operations and wars to draw from in making them work in the game. However I don't know as I can say that fully in how we treat helos in the game because quite frankly they are tougher now in machine, crew training and tactics all of which is for a later time.

I have a video too it's the "HIND Killer" but you would't know it by watching this video ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM82Vuq3PdM

Glad I was on subs at least we got to take showers once in a while!?!
And...
Perspective can be like a bad commercial...My Dad 28yrs. in the USA/Combat in 3 wars/Eldest son in the USN/SS/You fiqure out what was priceless to him.
I salute all you "ground pounders" as I saluted him for the last time, and all those associated with supporting them in the field both in the past and present.

Regards,
Pat