WinSP MBT: Das Reich

[MarkSheppard]

Actually, you know, I had a long walk with the dog, and I realized I was over thinking things.

No invasion of England is actually needed to force Britain into an armistice if there's no Churchill and Edward VIII is on the throne.

The shock of France crumbling in just 43 days (as opposed to grinding it out to the end over 4 years as in WWI), followed by the loss of a significant portion of the BEF into captivity would be enough to shake the British government to it's core and raise calls for an armistice.

You know, I can't help but wonder if people were calling for that in May 1940 in real life. I'd sure love to read British newspapers from back then.

It's just that you know...it's a CHALLENGE, damnit to make a Sea Lion that's somewhat plausible.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

It is fairly well known now that the German Naval High Command opposed Sea Lion almost from the beginning, the Battle of Britain sealed the fate of that operation. Hitler as we know would draw his attention back to Russia as he saw the Soviet Socialists system as a bigger threat not only to himself but the world. He did after all saw himself as a "crusader" at times. Also it should be noted that almost to the mid/or end of the WWII he still thought some accommodation could be made with England.

I believe to get a better picture of Churchill, mood of the English and military status and issues I would highly recommend reading William Manchester's (w/Paul Reid who Manchester personally chose to finish Vol. III) Vol. II The Last Lion/Alone, 1932-1940 Pub. 1988 and Vol. III The Last Lion/Defender Of The Realm, 1940-1965 Pub. 2012 (Which greatly benefited from the release of classified documents from all the major powers involved starting from 1995 on.), you would be hard pressed to find a better all round references. I personally found them very insightful and feel he was the best (Unfortunately in part also in his uncanny way of predicting future events leading well into The Cold War.) of the "Big Four" he wasn't perfect but, he was better than good. It's worth noting his bust was and is again the only foreign leader to be honored and held in the White House to my limited knowledge.

Regards,
Pat


Regards,

[IronDuke99]

A good deal of the Royal Australian and Royal New Zealand navies were actually not in their home waters in 1939-40, but supporting the RN in the Med and Atlantic, etc. Canadian troops were also in UK.

the lower losses of the JU87's were purely because they suffered such heavy losses in their early operations against Britain, that the German Air Force had to totally withdraw them from operations over and close to UK.

Also worth bearing in mind that the German Air Force in 1939-40, in common with most other air forces, was actually not all that good at sinking enemy warships that early in the war.(although they improved later on).

I am not all that convinced that Edward VIII was really all that pro German and, in any case, even in 1940 the views of a British King, were hardly all that important in political as opposed to propaganda terms.

Yes a UK without Churchill might, maybe, have made peace with Germany after the fall of France, if the German terms had been generous enough (ie, no loss of territory, no German troops on any British territory at home or overseas, no concessions to Italy, full exchange of prisoners, etc). However even such a peace would have seen UK continue to re-arm and, perhaps to Britain's advantage, might have enabled this to happen without British bankruptcy by 1942...