Mount Mod for v1.78

[AJC]

I dont have a pulse gattling mount in my mount mod -that's DeathStalkers mount ..

None of the mounts in my Mount mod decrease damage when applied to weapons.

[ September 02, 2002, 19:58: Message edited by: AJC ]

[gregebowman]

Originally posted by AJC:
I would suggest making a copy of TDM and just renaming it slightly. Then put the mount mod , CompEnhancements.txt into the TDM mods Data folder. that way you dont affect your original TDM mod in any way.

If you use it , please let me know how it goes I am very interested!

thanks

I'm finally to the point in my game where I finally acquired all of the research so I can get all of the necessary requirements. I like what you have done. This was the first time I've played the MountMod, so I can't compare this Version to an earlier Version. But it does make it more interesting when you're building a ship. Great job.

[PvK]

Sorry AJC - as you saw, I got your mount mod confused with Deathstalker's.

I guess some of what I said applies to yours, too, however. Looking over your mount mod again, I think it would be interesting and fun to play with, though my concerns/suggestions would mainly be:

1) The effects are pretty sudden in some cases. For instance, I'd prefer to have miniaturization come in a series of levels instead of suddenly being able to half-size components. Of course, it might get to be a hassle to have too many, since they all go in the "mounts" list. Maybe at least add a 75% miniaturization mount available before the 50% one.

2) Some of the mounts are just clearly better than not using them, so there is no choice involved. Advanced shields and advanced weapons in particular allow great improvements to performance per kT AND cost less than full-size components, so there doesn't seem to be a choice involved in whether to use them.

3) The tech level requirements don't really fit my imagination of what they represent. I don't get why computers, military science, and applied research would result in sudden multipliers to the abilities of certain components.

An example:

Long Name := Advanced Shield Generator Mount
Short Name := Adv Shield Mount
Description := Increases shield strength by 300%. Reduces size of shield generator by 25%. Requires ship or base size of at least 150Kt.
Code := Gx
Cost Percent := 200
Tonnage Percent := 75
Tonnage Structure Percent := 100
Damage Percent := 0
Shield Percent := 300
Supply Percent := 0
Range Modifier := 0
Weapon To Hit Modifier := 0
Vehicle Size Minimum := 150
Comp Family Requirement := 11
Weapon Type Requirement := None
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base
Number of Tech Req := 5
Tech Area Req 1 := Shields
Tech Level Req 1 := 6
Tech Area Req 2 := Physics
Tech Level Req 2 := 3
Tech Area Req 3 := Advanced Military Science
Tech Level Req 3 := 5
Tech Area Req 4 := Applied Research
Tech Level Req 4 := 3
Tech Area Req 5 := Computers
Tech Level Req 5 := 4

This is a steep 400+% increase in performance per kT, and it also cuts 1/3 off the cost per shield point, at the same time. So there is almost never a reason to not use this mount, so there is no tradeoff to decide about. My suggestion would be to make it actually cost more per shield point to use a mount like this, because of the massive shield/kT advantage - so you could get much stronger shields, or have more room to make a more powerful single ship with other components, but it would cost more. As it is, the main choice offered is when to try to get all the required research to achieve the mount - then always use it.

PvK

[AJC]

Hmm, All the mounts after the 1st shield mount incorporate miniturization. All of them. In fact if you look closely you will see that. Each advanced mount space usage is based on the capabilities of the previous standard (Base Game's) mount sizes. Damage is increased with the idea that the advanced weapons mount in my mod increases the damage 25% to the base weapons and reducing their size 50% to simulate miniturization.

So to simulate Advanced weapons being incorporated into the other advanced mounts - I increased the damage by 50% over the standard base games mounts and reduced the size requirements for each level of mount.

So a Advanced Large mount is 50% smaller than the Large mount. Does 50% more damage than the Large mount and uses 1/2 the supplies of the large mount, cost 50% more than the large mount and also has slightly increased range.

Long Name := Large Ship Mount
Short Name := Large Mount
Description := Larger sized weapon mount which increases damage from the weapon by 2 times. Requires a vehicle size of at least 400kT. Can only be used on Direct Fire weapons.
Code := L
Cost Percent := 150
Tonnage Percent := 150
Tonnage Structure Percent := 200
Damage Percent := 200
Supply Percent := 200
Range Modifier := 0
Weapon To Hit Modifier := 0
Vehicle Size Minimum := 400
Weapon Type Requirement := Direct Fire
Vehicle Type := Ship

Long Name := Advanced Large Ship Mount
Short Name := Adv Large Mount
Description := Advanced weapon mount which increases damage from the weapon by 2 times. Increases the range of the weapon by 1. Requires a vehicle size of at least 400kT. Can only be used on Direct Fire weapons.
Code := Lx
Cost Percent := 200
Tonnage Percent := 100
Tonnage Structure Percent := 200
Damage Percent := 250
Supply Percent := 100
Range Modifier := 1
Weapon To Hit Modifier := 0
Vehicle Size Minimum := 400
Weapon Type Requirement := Direct Fire
Vehicle Type := Ship
Number of Tech Req := 4
Tech Area Req 1 := Physics
Tech Level Req 1 := 2
Tech Area Req 2 := Advanced Military Science
Tech Level Req 2 := 4
Tech Area Req 3 := Applied Research
Tech Level Req 3 := 3
Tech Area Req 4 := Computers
Tech Level Req 4 := 3

Long Name := Heavy Ship Mount
Short Name := Heavy Mount
Description := Heavy sized weapon mount which increases damage from the weapon by 3 times. Requires a vehicle size of at least 800kT. Can only be used on Direct Fire weapons.
Code := H
Cost Percent := 200
Tonnage Percent := 200
Tonnage Structure Percent := 300
Damage Percent := 300
Supply Percent := 300
Range Modifier := 0
Weapon To Hit Modifier := 0
Vehicle Size Minimum := 800
Weapon Type Requirement := Direct Fire
Vehicle Type := Ship

Long Name := Advanced Heavy Ship Mount
Short Name := Adv Heavy Mount
Description := Advanced weapon mount which increases damage from the weapon by 3 times. Increases the range of the weapon by 1. Requires a vehicle size of at least 800kT. Can only be used on Direct Fire weapons.
Code := Hx
Cost Percent := 250
Tonnage Percent := 150
Tonnage Structure Percent := 300
Damage Percent := 350
Supply Percent := 150
Range Modifier := 1
Weapon To Hit Modifier := 0
Vehicle Size Minimum := 800
Weapon Type Requirement := Direct Fire
Vehicle Type := Ship
Number of Tech Req := 4
Tech Area Req 1 := Physics
Tech Level Req 1 := 2
Tech Area Req 2 := Advanced Military Science
Tech Level Req 2 := 5
Tech Area Req 3 := Applied Research
Tech Level Req 3 := 3
Tech Area Req 4 := Computers
Tech Level Req 4 := 4

The cost thing I have already explained - you can cripple the AI if you make things too pricey. Standard warships are cranked out in 4-6 turns. With the mounts in this mod and with the current prices- that increased to 10 - 15 turns depending. So you have a more expensive components with more powerful capabilities but The trade off is cost and longer build time vs. more power.

Tech-
Computerized components has alot to do with miniturization. The more advanced computing becomes the smaller the targeting system, components, electronics etc.. can be. The idea being that advanced computerization all allows for more advanced electronics and allows for more compact designs.

Understanding of Physics has alot to do with miniturization, capabilities, and power. An example of a real world issue -the problem with the Air Borne Laser on the 747, too big, special mounting and materials to withstand the tempatures, limited shots due to resupply issues.

Applied research represents the next level of scientific research and development to achieve miniturization and design ships with these types of mounts.

Advanced Military Science - kind fo self explanatory, however I think it is an under used tech branch that seemed perfect for mount technology.

After playing a game for 114 turns using these mounts, I havent found any massive technological leaps in the game. I will continue to test with this concern in mind.

I will be interested to see how you feel after using the mod. If you get the chance.

[ September 03, 2002, 22:00: Message edited by: AJC ]

[jimbob]

Regarding the 'trade off' issue of using the mount vs. not using the mount, this sort of jumped out of the Last message:

Understanding of Physics has alot to do with miniturization, capabilities, and power. An example of a real world issue -the problem with the Air Borne Laser on the 747, too big, special mounting and materials to withstand the tempatures, limited shots due to resupply issues.

Perhaps the mounts could incorporate a slower reload time... the smaller the mount, the harder it would be to cool it (and so a longer time to cool) resulting in a poor reload rate?!

In this way, the weapons still become say 400% better, but with a reload time of 2, they are actually (on average) 200% better. This might solve a few of the quandries posed.

[PvK]

Ya, it would be nice to be able to mod reload time in a mount, too. Although since some weapons components have different reload times, the degree of effect would be different depending on the base reload time.

AJC, I see. Your idea is that components should all get smaller and more powerful as technology in general advances, and in general players are expected to almost always use mounts once they achieve them, and to all try to develop these mounts. So, that makes sense now that I get the design intent. (I was looking at them from the perspective of a mod trying to add more choices and balanced tradeoffs, which is a different design intent.)

PvK

[AJC]

yes !- thats exactly right - I didnt see much point in trying to reproduce DeathStalkers mount, he has everything I could ever think of plus the kitchen sink in his!

I wanted something that gave improvements to existing components without modding a whole series of new components. I wanted to preserve the base game.

DS took care of multiple choices in the manner your thinking. The only issue I have is some of the mounts are not really worth using, and the biggest for me was that the AI wont use all of them. In the mount window the list is overwhelming. Too many choices , and I usually love many choices.

I was also interested in controlling what gets miniturized . Some of the components that I cannot rationally see being miniturized ; a bridge, crew qtrs, cargo bays, vehicle and unit launchers , ship yards, repair bays and colony modules. Some of the stellar manipulation components I did miniturize - however I felt that components that destroys planets , create planets/stars, create /destroy storms , create or destroy nebulas or any component that destroys star systems in any fashion should not be miniturized for game balance.

[ September 04, 2002, 20:18: Message edited by: AJC ]