The Tank is dead

[scorpio_rocks]

Isn't the answer to ATGM under armour for the UK already available with the export warrior / desert warrior with its TOWs?

Or is the thought that the Exactor (NLOS Spike) can provide the facility to the fast moving mobile troops?

[IronDuke99]

Originally Posted by scorpio_rocks

Isn't the answer to ATGM under armour for the UK already available with the export warrior / desert warrior with its TOWs?

Or is the thought that the Exactor (NLOS Spike) can provide the facility to the fast moving mobile troops?

Desert Warrior mounts a different turret with a 25mm gun. The British Army is upgrading to Warrior 2000 with a good 40mm gun, granted if it was affordable and could be fitted on Warrior 2000 Tow might well be the answer.

Extractor/NLOS Spike seems to be treated as a Royal Artillery asset in the British Army.

I remain rather dubious about 8x8 APC's for the British Army unless they use them to replace almost all the assorted short term, urgent buy, stuff that they purchased for Afghan, much of which is worn out and almost all of which is less than useful for anything else.

[shahadi]

I'm not sure, but as the military and political foot print on the ground in Syria and Iraq has dramatically changed, I do not see British infantry involved at all beyond a few special ops.

What I would like to see, if this Brexit move does not alter the fundamental relationship between the Brits and the Americans vis-a-vis NATO is that Britain takes on the leadership of the fundamental defense of Europe, then her new found strategic obligations will drive what she needs to field. 8x8's won't fare as well in Europe against Russian heavy mechanized brigades as say opposed to lightly armed Taliban fighters.

If she committed to NATO leadership, then I see, in my reading, she must field heavy mechanized combat teams too.

8x8's need a lot of supporting firepower to bring independent brigades to battle. Especially, if she transports two fire teams per vehicle there's not enough cubic feet to put added ammo loads to support auto canons and missiles.

Tanks, heavy tanks are needed.

One solution, since she does not have to air lift heavy mechanized formations (placing the brigades forward in Eastern Europe), is to adopt the Israeli solution, turning to hulls of ready to retire tanks for heavy IFV's conversions.

Now, that should make an interesting scenario.

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[Aeraaa]

Originally Posted by shahadi

8x8's won't fare as well in Europe against Russian heavy mechanized brigades as say opposed to lightly armed Taliban fighters.


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I agree. In a large conventional war, we won't witness the death of the tank, but the death of light armor (something that was evident in Ukraine as well). Stryker brigades and equivalent formations will have a hard time surviving on a battlefield like this.

[IronDuke99]

Originally Posted by shahadi

I'm not sure, but as the military and political foot print on the ground in Syria and Iraq has dramatically changed, I do not see British infantry involved at all beyond a few special ops.

What I would like to see, if this Brexit move does not alter the fundamental relationship between the Brits and the Americans vis-a-vis NATO is that Britain takes on the leadership of the fundamental defense of Europe, then her new found strategic obligations will drive what she needs to field. 8x8's won't fare as well in Europe against Russian heavy mechanized brigades as say opposed to lightly armed Taliban fighters.

If she committed to NATO leadership, then I see, in my reading, she must field heavy mechanized combat teams too.

8x8's need a lot of supporting firepower to bring independent brigades to battle. Especially, if she transports two fire teams per vehicle there's not enough cubic feet to put added ammo loads to support auto canons and missiles.

Tanks, heavy tanks are needed.

One solution, since she does not have to air lift heavy mechanized formations (placing the brigades forward in Eastern Europe), is to adopt the Israeli solution, turning to hulls of ready to retire tanks for heavy IFV's conversions.

Now, that should make an interesting scenario.

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Like other Western nations UK has Special Forces operating in the Middle East, rather than infantry, as well as air forces.

UK plays a major role in NATO, although for my money I hope that does not involve confronting Russia in Eastern Europe, that can only lead to a hiding to nothing, certainly East and north of Poland.

Post Brexit, and with the new Carriers available from about 2019, I hope that UK returns to its traditional mainly maritime stance, on defence. The Royal Navy will become even more important for a nation that wants to be a global trader.

UK can live with a 70-80,000 man regular Army so long as the Royal Navy is strengthened and the Royal Marine Brigade kept at full strength. If I had my way, other than for occasional NATO exercises, none of the British Army would be actually based in mainland Europe, beyond the Crown bases on Cyprus and perhaps Gib.

To my way of thinking a UK that has a para/air portable brigade group, a Royal Marine brigade group, some sort of light armoured brigade group and an Armoured Division, plus Special Forces, has about as much military as it is likely to need.

I am much more concerned with a Royal Navy that has only 19 major surface escorts (needs to be at least 25) and seven nuc attack subs (needs to be at least 8 and preferably 10).

[IronDuke99]

Btw, I also think there is a strong case for UK expanding the excellent Gurkha Rifles to a full brigade.

[IronDuke99]

British Army admits Russia can outgun British troops (no great surprise to me, I have to say) Much of the video relates to NATO in general, for example "No NATO nation, bar the US, can get a division" -presumably an Armoured Div- "out the door in much less than six months"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aCorCNjwRY