Cross country speeds

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by Kiwikkiwik

SU__T-60________15___15___0___10____7___3
SU__T-70________17___15___2___10____7___3

According to Svirin, T-70 developed only 42 km/h (ie 14), J. Magnuski gives 45 km/h (15).

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

Maybe it's because they are almost perfectly correct (apart from BT-7M)
According to Russian books by Baryatynski/Kolomiets (Bronyekollektsya series), both BT-2/BT-5 developed 52 km/h on tracks (ie 17) and 72 km/h on wheels, BT-7: 53 (ie 17.6) and 73 km/h and BT-7M: 62 (ie 20.6) and 86 km/h respectively.
Obviously, these tanks could go on wheels on roads only.

Mihail Svirin gives the same figures for BT-2/BT-5, and off road speed 32 / 33. For BT-7 he gives 51.6 km/h (ie 17), for BT-7M also 62.

Gee..... you mean people who post here quoting "authoritative sources" might actually be completely wrong ?? I'm shocked..........

What I think I needed to do about 4 years ago was tell people if they don't like what they see then use MOBHack and quite making useless work for me . What you are telling us here is most of his stats are questionable

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by DRG

Gee..... you mean people who post here quoting "authoritative sources" might actually be completely wrong ?? I'm shocked..........

What I think I needed to do about 4 years ago was tell people if they don't like what they see then use MOBHack and quite making useless work for me . What you are telling us here is most of his stats are questionable

Actually, the rest might be OK, but I wouldn't trust Chamberlain and other Western authors writing about Soviet tanks, using probably some obsolete third-hand or fourth-hand sources. Besides, it's hard to be an expert on all countries. New Russian sources (=after a fall of communism) seem more credible here, I guess. The same is with German tanks (although they were always popular) - when I want to know something, I better trust Jentz.

Anyway, I hope it's good, that I checked it...

[DRG]

I did change the Bt-2 / Bt-5 A's to prototype..... I am already fed up fixing scenarios because of trivial changes creating " broken" scenarios. I have more than enough on both games lists to keep me busy and away from doing something worthwhile so we are DONE accepting further changes Michal. I had no intention of using that or any other data without some cross checking. As I mentioned the FT-17's ARE to fast in the game..........we knew that so long ago I forgot it until the point was raised again....they move at infantry speed

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by DRG

As I mentioned the FT-17's ARE to fast in the game..........we knew that so long ago I forgot it until the point was raised again....they move at infantry speed

I've never raised an issue of FT speed, as far as I can remember - I assumed this is a minimal reasonable value.

[Kiwikkiwik]

Originally Posted by DRG

Gee..... you mean people who post here quoting "authoritative sources" might actually be completely wrong.....What you are telling us here is most of his stats are questionable

To be quite honest I feel like my credibility is being attacked here.
All the values are from the books quoted. Not made up by me.
I have most of the Jentz panzer tract books, and most of the German speeds match those.
I think I noted Jentz as one of my sources origionally but that has fallen off.
Is Him me?
I never said authoratative I said published.
I agree the Max speeds are mostly right, I am posting about the cross country speeds that mostly arnt.(According to these books, I know there are other sources that I dont have.)
What I am saying is tank crosscountry speeds clearly aren't half of max speed for all the tanks in WW2! I am trying to show how many and by how much they do deviate. It a sort of survey
I also said that I thought the max speed quoted for BTs was with the tracks off.
I see your problem with scenarios, but changing swim speed to crosscountry speed wouldn't affect any scenarios?
With the scenario problem,
Maybe issue only the new scenarios with each version and remove all the others? People that play the scenarios would have time to play them all beween patches?
Similar to how you have to finish PBEM before patching, you have to finish Scenarios before patching.
How many people play the old scenarios? I dont play any scenarios.
or remove the affected scenarios? or scenario designers upgrade them?
If there was a way around the Scenario problem maybe you could do Pibwl's changes and eventually there wouldnt be hardly any left to do?
I think lots of people like the game because of all the tiny detail. It would be a shame to waste Pibwl's work.
Just Dreaming sorry for any stress caused.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Kiwikkiwik

To be quite honest I feel like my credibility is being attacked here.
.

Your "credibility" took a big hit when you showed you did not know what " default " meant in the game in regards to unitclass and posted huge lists of things you thought should be changed

Originally Posted by Kiwikkiwik

I also said that I thought the max speed quoted for BTs was with the tracks off.

What you wrote was "BT-2/5 on wheels.".....in a spreadsheet titled TrackedCrossCountrySpeeds.xls and eariler on you wrote that ..........

Yugoslavia
These vehicles are class 0 default and should be class 4 tracked.
.....
BT-7 (140)
.

at no time did you suggest the BT-2's or BT-5's that ARE set up as tracked in the game should be wheeled as those tanks only used wheels to preserve their tracks when moving for distances along roads so the game sets them as tracked not wheeled so why show me worthless wheeled speeds for a tank that in combat fought tracked and is set up that way in the game?


I have REPEATEDLY told you the way CC speed is calculated in not going to change, it's an approximation applied the same way to each vehicle type that more or less works well but there WILL ALWAYS BE EXCEPTIONS and we are NOT going to change swim speed to CC speed


Any TOP speed pegged as too high or low I will investigate.... and if *I* find other sources agree I will make an adjustment.


That's as far as this is going to go

Don