SP, MLRS and SPAA Developments

[dmnt]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

Well to clean up my files for Finland in this thread...

First gives status of artillery at the time of this article.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/march...artillery.html

Just be careful with the "official" numbers which are quoted here. I stepped on this mine already once and thought that if it isn't on the official Vienna convention list for Army equipment strength then it doesn't exist.

However, Finland used a loophole where Navy strength isn't included in the listing and coastal forces operate under Navy command. And they operate field guns and other - even mobile - artillery units. And if they're all transferred to the Coastal units then they don't exist on the OSCE listing.

See: (in Finnish) http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/2016...29469_uu.shtml
especially the image attached:


First table compares Finnish ("Suomi") announcements to German ("Saksa") ones in 2014 and in 2016. The table rows are titled (in parenthesis the number reported in 2016):
120mm Heavy mortar (698)
122mm FH (471)
122mm SPA (34)
155mm SPA (-)
130mm FG (76)
152mm FG (24)
155mm FG (132)
122mm MRL (72)
270mm MRL (41)
227mm MRL (-)
120mm SP-Mortar (18)

Two graphs below are the tank numbers and then combined artillery numbers (not including < 120mm weaponry)

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

If I may, my ref. was only discussing the Army specifically in that article and your ref. is two years newer. I have a full appreciation of the Scandinavian countries need for coastal batteries that I believe fall mostly under their respective navies. And they do (And are.) rightly need to be in the game and updated as warranted for those countries especially since they're moving towards missile systems lately. Like I said just cleaning out old files.

Happy Holidays!!

Regards,
Pat

[redcoat2]

Algeria (obat 50) confirms delivery of SR5 rocket launcher system from China. The People’s National Army of Algeria has released pictures of its recently delivered multiple rocket launchers during a live-fire military exercise.

http://defence-blog.com/army/algeria...rom-china.html

Reports from November last year:

https://www.armyrecognition.com/november_2017_global_defense_security_news_industr y/china_would_have_delivered_sr5_rocket_launchers_to _algeria.html

https://themaghrebtimes.com/11/22/al...ket-launchers/

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well Turkey finally settled on a local manufacturer to build the engines for the long delayed ALTAY tank. Another long standing program just 2 days ago has finally come to an agreement. The system is Russia's S-400 and Turkey has been looking into trying the system since IDEF 2009 in Istanbul.

The parties have finally reached an agreement for them to be bought with a technological exchange package. I feel the sales numbers will be lower than in the past, as Turkey is in the "middle" stage in deployment of it's own system. I believe it'll be ~NOV 2019 earliest before Turkey fields them.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-t...-idUSKBN1DC0H7
https://www.timesofisrael.com/turkey...efense-system/
https://www.armyrecognition.com/febr...e_systems.html
https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-...-say-1.5464852


From ref. 3...
"The S-400 entered service with the Russian Armed Forces on April 28, 2007, replacing the S-300 air defense system. The Russian Army plans call for the fielding of 18 battalions by 2020 as the backbone of its surface-to-air missile capabilities. Belarus is set to become the first export customer."

Well there is a small problem with the above, the FOC+ date is all messed up now. The correct date as already in the game for Russia, was submitted on February 12th, 2011, 06:55 PM and I wonder who could've done that!?! However now it's back to April 2007.

So now what? Well we need to go back in time and determine whether these newer sources are correct OR have since been updated.

Well before this Thread existed which was built to be more inclusive there was this Thread...Transport for U.S. Patriot Units-Update! I'd been tracking the S-400 for sometime from the aforementioned Thread go to Page 3/Posts #23 - #26. It's many pages back in the Threads file, however, it won't be in a few minutes. You'll find your answer in the last post of the below thread and where the 2007 came from.
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Grumble-Gargoyle.html

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

This to put things in order.

PJC

[MarkSheppard]

Japan is showing off a wheeled SP Howitzer that could replace towed guns in JGSDF service

https://defence-blog.com/army/japan-...-howitzer.html

According to the MoD’s statement, the Acquisition, Technology and Logistics Agency (ATLA) is developing new wheeled self-propelled howitzers for replacing FH-70 towed howitzers for the Japan Ground Self-Defense Force (JGSDF).

Details of the first prototype of 155 mm self-propelled artillery system, based on 8×8 chassis were released at the official website of the Japan Ministry of Defense.

The new artillery system is a hybrid of the wheeled truck chassis, with a 155mm 52-calibre long-range gun that is equipped with the on-board computation, inertial navigation and aiming systems.

The vehicle has a maximum length of 11.4m, a height of 3.4m and width of 2.5m. A typical operating crew is five personnel though three can manage the gun and vehicle functions in an emergency.

Tags: Japan

Meanwhile in CHINA; there may be a new wheeled SP howitzer platform, limited details are available on it; a few dozen of it have been seen on a train.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Before I start, I must say we're missing in the USA OOB the following M109A1, M109A3, M109A4, M109A5, M109A5+ and M109A7 PIM/A7 units. The compromise UNIT appears to be the M109A6 PALADIN that covers the period of JAN 1985 to DEC 2025. So who cares and why is this an issue? I have three issues that come to mind in just a few minutes of looking at the issue. OK now five after 5 minutes.

1. It's bigger and size matters. Versions up the M109A5+ used the chassis of the M113 APC. Both the M109A6 (I think.) and M109A7 (For sure.) use the BRADLEY chassis.See 2., 3. & 4. below.

2. Ammo load is different the M109A6 carries 38 rounds. The previous versions carry 36 or 28 rounds.

3. It is better protected with heavier armor and spall liners installed in the interior.

4. The guns are different the M109A6 has the 155mm/L39 (PIM/A7 might be bigger, if I remember correctly, I posted quite a bit about these current last 2 units.) the previous versions I believe ALL used the 155mm/L23 gun.

5. Also some M109A6 (And I suspect PIM/A7.) carry a 40 mm automatic grenade launcher vice 12.7mm MG.

6. ROF for M109A6 PALADIN & I believe M109A7 (PIM was dropped.) is 4 RPM for both MAX. AND SUSTAINED fire, while the previous versions ROF is 4 RPM MAX./2 RPM Sustained.

With the ABRAMS issues being in a better place with at least two slots being available, in an otherwise tight OOB, I'm requesting that an intermediate 1 or 2 units be chosen from Ref. 3 below (For the USA.) as submitted for Brazil. This will allow me to fix the M109A6 PALIDAN and we can figure out what to do about the PIM later. My brain is already crunching numbers for the A6. Currently ALL USA M109A6 units are being converted over to the M109A7.

I'm not doing anything with it until I get the "Green Light" to do so.

I'm forced to use the M109A6 based on the units BRAZIL has gotten and will be getting per Ref. 1.

USA/CHANGE/M109A2/UNIT 041/AMMO ROUNDS 36 vice 28//This was the first version to have the increased ammo allowance.//
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/m109.htm

BRAZIL/ADD/M109A5/COPY/USA UNIT 042/START APR 2019/MG M284 155mm/L39/ROUNDS 36/SECONDARY M2HB 12.7mm w/500 ROUNDS//This unit was the first modified to carry the larger MG.

BRAZIL/ADD/M109A5+/COPY/USA UNIT 042/START JAN 2020/MG M284 155mm/L39/ROUNDS 36/SECONDARY M2HB 12.7mm w/500 ROUNDS//Improved FCS.

BRAZIL/ADD/M992 FAASV/COPY/USA UNIT 343/START APR 2019//Has the ammo capacity to reload M109 Series with 93 rounds.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/janu...lian_army.html
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/m109.htm
(See for variants.)
http://www.military-today.com/artill...a6_paladin.htm
https://www.armyrecognition.com/marc...ort_filey.html


CHINA/ADD/SH-15/ALSO KNOWN AS SH-1A/START JAN 2019/CREW 4 to 5/MG AH-2 155mm/L52/ROF MAX. 6 RPM/SUSTAINED 4 RPM/ROUNDS ?/COMPATIBLE TO NATO and CHINESE ROUNDS/SECONDARY OPTIONAL 12.7mm MG ROUNDS ?/PROTECTION 0/IS HOWEVER AIR PORTABLE C-130 or CHINESE Y-9 TYPE AIR TRANSPORT//There just isn't much more available on this piece of equipment I can find. It is very similar AND closer to the French CEASAR then the SH-1 below.

CHINA/ADD/SH-1/START JAN 2019/CREW 5/MG AH-2 155mm/L52/ROF MAX. 6 RPM/SUSTAINED 4 RPM/ROUNDS 25/COMPATIBLE TO NATO and CHINESE ROUNDS/SECONDARY 12.7mm MG ROUNDS ?/PROTECTION ARMORED CAB/IS AIR PORTABLE C-130 or CHINESE Y-9 TYPE AIR TRANSPORT//A complete SH-1 regiment includes 24 truck-mounted howitzers, 4 battery command post vehicles, one battalion command post vehicle, one meteorological radar, 4 wheeled reconnaissance vehicles with 6x6 configuration and one artillery locating radar.
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/sh1.htm
(See variant section. Also has picture options.)
https://www.armyrecognition.com/janu...nese_army.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/july...nese_army.html

Last two as time allows just wish I had more data.

It's 3am I'm done. Good well everything!?!

Regards,
Pat