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Old August 2nd, 2018, 07:08 PM
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Default Re: China OOB21 and OOB14 v.11

CHINESE ORDNANCE NOTES


1. Type 27 Grenade Launcher: This small mortar was designed and produced in China. This designation "Type 27" indicates its acceptance for service in 1938 (1911 [founding year of the Chinese republic]+27=1938). A lever-type trigger was pulled to fire the grenade, and a two-hole gas regulator cap at the bottom of the tube bled off propellant gas for range adjustment. This weapon was not standard issue, its presence/quantity in a given unit being dependent on its availability and the commanding officer's preference.


Air Burst TEM never applies to an attack by this mortar (i.e., normal woods/jungle/bamboo TEM would apply). This is signified by "Air Bursts NA" on the counter.

2. Mortario da 45 "Brixia", 5cm IeGrW 36, 50mm RM obr. 38 & Type 89 Heavy Grenade Launcher: The Nationalists imported various types of foreign light mortars, with those from Germany ["50mm MTR(g)"], the U.S.S.R. ["50mm MTR(r)"], and Italy ["45mm MTR"] being numerically the most important. The Red Chinese received some light mortars from the Soviets, and captured (as well as clandestinely purchased) numbers of Nationalist mortars. Both also employed the Knee Mortar ["50mm MTR(j)"], which, aside from machine guns, was the most common captured Japanese support weapon in Chinese service; all that could be obtained were put to use, with the number growing as the war went on. Chinese arsenals manufactured copies of the German and Soviet weapons, plus ammunition for them (and for the Knee Mortar), while Resistance forces built a small number of Knee Mortars. Unfortunately, information on the tactical employment of these mortars is nil.

The following special rules apply to the 50mm MTR(j):

• When firing HE at a range of ≤ two hexes, the ROF is lowered to "1" for that shot and Air Bursts are NA.

• WP can be fired only at a range of 1-5 hexes, reduces the ROF to "1" for that shot, is considered Dispersed even when fired in the PFPh, and Air Bursts are NA.

• Smoke can be fired only at a range of 3-10 hexes.

• A Japanese Personnel may use it with no Captured-use penalty (and it may be fired from a cave; G11.83).

3. M2 60mm Mortar: This mortar (U.S. Ordnance Note 1) was supplied to the Chinese divisions of X-Force and Y-Force in Burma (1,238 were furnished to the latter, plus perhaps as many as 810 to X-Force), and to those that were U.S. trained-and-equipped to fight in China. In X-Force, each rifle company was authorized six M2. The game piece also represents the French 60mm mle 35 (from which the M2 was derived) and the Type 31, a Chinese copy of the French/U.S. models. The Type 31 entered production in 1942 or shortly thereafter, and 5,150 had been built by mid 1945. Total Chinese production of light mortars during the war years is estimated to have been about 12,000.

Three M2 60mm can be used as OBA as per U.S. Ordnance Note 1 and G17.5.

4. Stokes 3-in., 8cm GrW 34 & 82mm BM obr 37: The Stokes 3-in. mortar (see British Ordnance Note 2) was produced in China from 1925, being built initially in the Manchurian arsenal at Mukden, and was still being manufactured at other arsenals in 1937. The nationalist government also imported, and eventually produced its own versions of, standard German and Soviet medium mortars. Chinese arsenals produced ammunition for all these types as well. Since most Chinese divisions lacked organic field guns and howitzers, mortars were usually their sole source of artillery support. A nationalist infantry regiment generally contained a company of 6-8 medium mortars, giving the division an average of 18-32 such weapons (depending on its structure). One source states that 5242 82mm mortars were built in China between early 1941 and mid 1945. In mid 1942 some 8000 trench mortars of all sizes were in service. Aside from its different maximum range, the 82mm piece (along with its initial availability Date) also represents the French 81mm mle 27/31 and the Italian Mortaio da 81/14, small numbers of which were in Nationalists service.

5. M1 81mm & M2 4.2-in. Mortars: These mortars (U.S. Ordnance Notes 3 and 4) were used by X-Force in Burma (with perhaps as many as 80 81mm being furnished). A company of twelve 81s was authorized in each infantry regiment, while the 4.2s were formed into a non-divisional heavy mortar regiment. At the end of 1944 a number of 4.2s were shipped to China for use by U.S. trained forces, but apparently saw no action there prior the war's end. The Chinese also used captured Japanese medium mortars whenever available. In addition, by the early '40s (perhaps even earlier) they had a small number of 150mm mortars in service, but it is not clear whether these were an indigenous design (around 1930, the Mukden arsenal had produced some experimentally) or captured Japanese models.

The Area Target FP of the 4.2-in. is "12" (rather than "8"). This is signified by "12 Area FP" on the counter.

6. 3.7cm PaK 35/36 & M3A1 37mm: The PaK 35/36 (German Ordnance Note 6) was the standard AT gun of Nationalist forces. In addition to purchasing numbers of it, production facilities were imported which allowed the gun to be manufactured in China. An infantry regiment might have two such guns, but most were formed into independent AT regiments controlled at army (U.S. corps) level or higher. In mid 1942 China possessed 600 - 750 "modern" and about 250 "obsolete" AT guns. The M3A1 (U.S. Ordnance Note 6) was issued to X-Force and Y-Force divisions (189 were supplied to Y-Force and perhaps as many as 120 to X-Force) for use in Burma; each X-Force infantry regiment was authorized an eight-gun AT company. From mid 1944 a small number of M3A1 were provided to Chinese forces in southeast China.

M3A1 Dates and RF for use in China are 7/44-45 and 1.6.

7. 37mm PP obr. 15R & Cannone da 70/15: Small numbers of this WW1 infantry gun (Russian Ordnance Note 11) and pre-WW1 mountain gun (Italian Ordnance Note 7) saw service with the Chinese. However, these counters mainly represent, in a generic manner, the many diverse types of antiquated artillery pieces used in China's provincial armies.

The 70/15 may not use Target Acquisition - as signified by "Acq. NA" on the counter.

Both the 70/15 and the PP obr. 15R have a circled B# (italicized in the Listing), indicating that it suffers from Low Ammo (D3.71). This status can be negated only by SSR, an Ammo Vehicle (E10.1) or an Ammo Dump (E10.6).

8. 7.5cm Krupp M08 & Obice da 75/13: The M1908 75mm mountain gun was one of several old Krupp artillery pieces used by the Nationalists, who even produced their own version of this particular model (one source states that in the 1930s up to 54 were built by in Chinese arsenals). The game piece also represents other similar pre-WW1 guns acquired in fair numbers such as the 76mm 00/02 P (Russian Ordnance Note 13) and the 75/27 (Italian Ordnance Note 9). China also purchased some 75/13 mountain guns (Italian Ordnance Note 8); this piece is equivalent in game terms to the Krupp 7.7cm C 96 nA employed by the Nationalists, and may be used to represent the Bofors M34 mountain gun, "a batch" of which was obtained by the Nationalists. Chinese forces employed small amounts of captured Japanese mountain artillery as well. In mid 1942 the Nationalists possessed about 1,000 75mm guns and howitzers (probably inclusive of 76-77mm types as well).

9. 7.5cm IeIG 18 & 76.2mm PP obr. 27: A relatively large number of these infantry guns (German Ordnance Note 15 and Russian Ordnance Note 12) were supplied to the Nationalists, who used them primarily in the field artillery role. However, some infantry regiments - probably those in elite divisions - did contain a company of (apparently two) 75mm pieces; and given the IeIG 18's short range, it may have the weapon of choice for this role. Chinese forces also employed small numbers of captured Japanese 70mm and 75mm infantry guns.

Dates and RF for the use of these Guns in Burma are 3-5/42 (1.4) and 5/44-45 (1.5).

10. M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer: By April 1942 the Chinese 5th Army in Burma had received about thirty U.S. pack howitzers, while others reached China at about the same time. By 1944 the M1A1 was the standard divisional artillery piece in X-Force and Y-Force, with 244 supplied to the latter and probably about sixty (tanke from British Lend-Lease stocks) to the former. The divisional artillery of an X-Force division was as single battalion of horse-packed M1A1s. Y-Force pack-howitzer battalions were generally held at army (U.S. corps) level, and detached to divisions or regiments at the need arose. (Some of the Y-Force battalions were actually man-packed; i.e., the disassembled howitzers, along with their ammunition and other accoutrements, were carried by coolies.) In China, twenty-five pack howitzer battalions were available by early 1945 to the ALPHA (a U.S. training-and-equipment program) divisions.

Dates and RF for use in Burma are 3-5/42 (1.4) and 1944-3/45 (1.3). For use in China they are 1942-6/44 (1.6) and 7/44-45 (1.5).

11. 7.7cm FK 16, 76.2mm P obr 02/30 & OQF 18-Pounder: The FK 16 was a Krupp designed field gun (FK: Feldkanone) used by the Germans in the latter half of WW1, with 3,000 being built from 1916 to 1918. The obr. 02/30 (Russian Ordnance Note 14) was an old Tsarist gun updated by the Soviets. Both types were purchased in relatively large numbers by the Nationalists. The FK 16 piece also represents the Canon de 75 mle 1897 (the famous "French 75", used in small numbers. The 18pdr (British Ordnance Note 11) was the mainstay of British artillery in WW1; some (apparently only a few) were acquired by the Nationalists. Other (evidently 75mm) pieces employed by the Nationalist forces were those of the Dutch firm Siderius. Whenever possible, Chinese forces also used captured Japanese field guns.

Almost all Chinese field artillery was organized into independent battalions and regiments controlled at army (U.S. corps) level or higher, and much of it was retained in the Central Artillery Reserve controlled by Jiang Kai-shek, who personally doled out guns as he saw fit (sometimes on or two at a time). An artillery battalion comprised two or three batteries of two to four guns each; at least in the early war years, a common battalion configuration was two 150mm and ten 75mm pieces. The total Nationalist artillery park in 1937 - 1938 has been variously estimated at 800-1,000 guns. By Sept. 1943 the total was about 1,330.

12. 10.5cm leFH 16, Cannone da 105/28 & M2A1 105mm Howitzer: The IeFH 16, a Krupp design using the same carriage as the FK 16 (Note 11 above), was the standard light field howitzer of the German Army by the end of WW1, replacing the M1898/09 which the Nationalists also possessed. The leFH 16 piece may also be used to represent the small number of foreign 105mm mountain howitzers in Nationalist service.
Note B/

The 105/28 (Italian Ordnance Note 13) was acquired by the Nationalists in relatively fair numbers - as was the leFH 18 (German Ordnance Note 20), which the 105/28 piece also represents. In addition, the Nationalists possessed a few 10cm K 18 (German Ordnance Note 21), 107mm P obr. 10/30 (Russian Ordnance Note 18), and 100/17 (Italian Ordnance Note 12), while both they and the Red Chinese captured a small number of Japanese 105mm howitzers. China's Chief of Ordnance stated in mid 1942 that his government's forces possessed a total of 91 105mm howitzers.

M2A1 howitzers (U.S. Ordnance Note 14) were supplied to X-Force, which used them in Burma. In addition, 157 were sent by aircraft (and, from the end of 1944, by truck) into China, but these apparently saw no action prior to the war's end.

leFH 16 RF for use in China is 1.5; Dates and RF for its use in Burma are 3-5/42 (1.6) and 5/44-1/45 (1.6).

13. 122mm G obr. 10/30 & G obr. 38: The U.S.S.R. supplied war materiel to China from 1924 to 1927, then again from 1938 to mid 1941 (though in a steadily decreasing trickle after Zhukov's crushing victory over the Japanese at Nomonhan in mid 1939). Among the Soviet artillery types sent to the Nationalists were obr. 10/30 and obr. 38 122mm howitzers (Russian Ordnance Notes 19 and 20), both of which were provided in fair numbers. However, when the stream of supplies from the U.S.S.R. dried up, so did the source of ammunition for most Soviet weapons, leaving their usefulness severely handicapped.

14. Obice da 149/13: The Chinese government purchased a number of these howitzers (Italian Ordnance Note 14). The game piece also represents various other WW1-era heavy howitzers such as the Krupp sFH 13 and the M1918 155mm (U.S. Ordnance Note 17). The latter was supplied in small numbers to X-Force in Burma, where it was used by elements of the Chinese 12th Field Artillery Battalion. In China the Nationalists also employed some Japanese Year-4 Type 150mm howitzers, some imported and others captured, plus a few Soviet 152mm guns/howitzers. One source states that the first use of 150mm artillery by the Chinese during the War of Resistance (i.e., the 1937-45 Sino-Japanese conflict) occurred in the fighting around Taierzhuang (Tai-erh-chuang) in early 1938. China's Chief or Ordnance stated in mid 1942 that Nationalist forces possessed 60 howitzers of "6-in." caliber.

WP is available only in scenarios set in Burma - as signified by the superscript "B".

In scenarios set in China, this gun may be towed only by a Wagon - as signified by "h-dC".

RF for use in China is 1.6. Dates and RF for use in Burma are 6/44-3/45 and 1.5.

15. Oerlikon FF, Cannone-mitragliera da 20/65 & 2cm FlaK 30: The Oerlikon was derived from a 1914 German design. Produced in Switzerland from 1921, it proved to be first successful light AA gun and was sold in large numbers to armies and navies around the world. One customer was the government in China, which purchased 120 Oerlikons in 1929. The Italians too sold 20mm AA ordnance to China, theirs being the 20/65 (Italian Ordnance Note 17). At about the same time, the Nationalists began purchasing the FlaK 30 (German Ordnance Note 25) and also arranged with German firms to have production facilities for the gun set up in China. Yet another type of 20mm AA in Nationalist service was the Madsen M35 from Denmark. 20mm AA guns were often used in the AT role, as a supplement to the standard (but sometimes unavailable) 37mm AT gun. The Chinese also obtained 12.7 - 13.2mm AAMG from France, the U.S.S.R. and the U.S.A.

Dates and RF for use in Burma are 3-5/42 (1.5) and 5/44-1/45 (1.5).

16. 3.7cm FlaK 36 o. 37 & Bofors 40mm L/60: The famed Bofors gun was purchased from Sweden, and also from Hungary where a licensed version was produced; later more were obtained from the Soviet Union, Britain and the United States. X-Force in Burma contained a battalion of Bofors 40mm, but it probably saw little action in the ground combat role. About 1937 the Nationalist government bought a number of (one source suggests 36) FlaK 36 o. 37 guns from Germany; later it apparently also received 37mm guns from the U.S.S.R. and U.S.A. Yet another type used by Nationalists was the static-mounted Vickers 40mm. AA guns were organized in independent battalions, with three batteries per battalion and four guns per battery.

Bofors Dates and RF for use in Burma are 2/44-3/45 and 1.6.

17. Bofors 75mm M29 & 8.8cm FlaK 18: These heavy AA guns were bought from Sweden and Germany. other such guns in Nationalist service were the Vickers 75mm, Soviet 76mm and Czech 90mm. Heavy AA guns were emplaced around important cities and key installations; hence they probably saw little use in ground combat. One source states that the Nationalists possessed 32 75mm AA guns in 1937; another says they had 211 AA guns of all sizes in mid 1942.

Source ASL Chapter H.
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  #2  
Old August 26th, 2018, 09:57 AM

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Default Re: China OOB21 and OOB14 v.11

Both OObs:

93 75mm M.1897 FG, 123 75mm M.1897 Bty - photo shows rare French split-trail modification - correct are: 8526, 8623, 9353, 23083
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Old November 18th, 2020, 04:36 PM

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Default Re: China OOB21 and OOB14 v.11

Nationalist China OOB21:

Remaining remarks from my notes:


47 45L66 AT guns - photo has a short barrel, should be eg. 29366

63 GMC AOP Truck - photo of CMP truck is appropriate only for late use. Better light truck of 1930s/40s is eg. 1074 (KNIL)

394 Nakajima Type 91 - it's a detail, but according to the book on Chinese aviation quoted before, delivered in a significant number to Kwangsi airforce only in 9/1935 (now 9/34). Only one was used from 9/34 for evaluation (the second one got quickly crashed).


396 Waco 240A - according to the book, arrived only in 1/31 (now 1/30) - the earliest fighter bomber from 1/30 might be copied Breguet XIV (unit 427 level bomber), or Old Corsair mentioned below.

397 Douglas O-2MC - might be copied with alternative heavier bomb load 2 x 120lb described in action in the quoted book.

399 V-92C Corsair - it has a different icon, than unit 400 - apparently should be the same. However, it makes not much sense as a strafer. It could be renamed as O2U-1D, known as "Old Corsair" used from 1930, with weaker engine - with some lighter bombs and possibly slower?

400 V-92C Corsair - it could carry 2 x 120lb (described in the book) - now it has one 110lb bomb.

408 I-16 Type 10 - name should be changed to Type 5 (it has 2 MGs)
There could be added I-16 Type 10 with 4 MGs from spring of 1938.

A Chinese photo: https://i.pinimg.com/736x/91/c9/69/9...054da73187.jpg


427 Breguet XIV.B [level bomber] - might be copied as a fighter-bomber, the most typical Chinese attack plane from late 1920s. -
"B" in the name seems redundant (or B2 to be precise in French nomenclature)
Typical WW1 era bomb load of Bre 14 was 32 x 8kg or 16 x 20kg.

428 Fiat Br.3 - it's worth to copy it with much heavier load, eg. 6 x 250lb or 2 x 500lb bombs (confirmed in the book).
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Old November 18th, 2020, 05:18 PM

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Default Re: China OOB21 and OOB14 v.11

017 PzKw Ia - according to German reports (from Jentz), they were unpacked from crates only in June 1937 "due to insufficient organization" (now: 6/36).
Name was written as IA or I A (like in German OOB)

Size should be 2 - they were very low (and in IA variant also low short) [edit].
The same should be in German OOB for IA and IB (and Spanish).

However, as I look at sizes of light tanks, I'm afraid that some are not coherent... Japanese light and medium tanks are smaller than others (the same in Japanese OOB) - is it a purpose handicap?

Type 95 Ha-Go (size 2) was relatively tall - 2,1 m, similar to Vickers E and T-26, although its pointed turret probably made it harder to be noticed. But much smaller Type 94 and Type 97 are of the same size 2.
However, size 3 is also Stuart, which was bigger and taller. On the other hand, when I look at this video, it doesn't seem that bigger... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IptafdU5z6s

I have a chart of light tanks in the same scale, +/- 2 pixels http://derela.pl/tanks35_SPWW2_PIBWL.jpg

Leaving apart light tanks, it seems however, that Type 97 Chi-Ha should be size 4 instead of 3 - and Type 89 size 4 or 5 instead of 3 (it was Sherman size...)...

Last edited by Pibwl; November 19th, 2020 at 12:46 PM.. Reason: error
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Old November 19th, 2020, 09:48 AM
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Default Re: China OOB21 and OOB14 v.11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pibwl View Post
- and Type 89 size 4 or 5 instead of 3 (it was Sherman size...)...
Height is not the only consideration given to assigning a size value and when width and length ( and turret size ) are considered as well a Type 89 was not "Sherman size " The 89's turret is half the size of even the basic Sherman and it is narrower than the Sherman but I will grant you that *maybe* it justifies a 4 but given "Tank Battles" involving the Japanese and anyone else are, even being generous...... RARE, it's not an issue that will tip the overall outcome a battle one way or the other

Vehicle size in the game is, and always has and always will be a subjective value with a narrow and limited range of choices and many of these size values were either hold overs from SP1 or go back over 2 decades to the beginnings of SP2WW2
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Last edited by DRG; November 19th, 2020 at 10:13 AM..
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