Spanish OOB32 and OOB33 v.11 (2018)

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

So, if a battery is off-map then 200+ range is a required factor.

I know that That's the problem, if a battery of off-map artillery shouldn't be off-map in reality, for it appears, that it had smaller range (<10km), as in case of Italian basic 100/17 howitzers for instance...


AT guns / Inf howitzers

99 Canon AT 20mm - according to http://www.sbhac.net/Republica/Fuerz...rtCC/ArtCC.htm it was Bofors 20mm, used from 6/37 (now 9/38). Better seems wheeled icon 8020 (although a photo on the quoted page may not be this specific weapon).


100 Canon AT 25mm - no mention on the quoted page, nor http://www.amonio.es/artilleria.htm (especially, that it appears from 1935 - before the war)

On the other hand, quite a number of interesting 37 mm 'Maklen' (McLean) automatic canons were delivered by Russians - photos: http://www.sbhac.net/Republica/Fuerz...rtCC/ArtCC.htm, https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/theo...-gun-t321.html
There are no penetration data (it wasn't basically AT-gun), but with modest 37x137R mm rounds and quite long barrel, it could be 3-4, I guess http://www.amonio.es/canon_37mm_maklen.htm.


101 Canon AT 37mm (Pak 35) - no mention on http://www.sbhac.net/Republica/Fuerz...rtCC/ArtCC.htm. It could have been captured from nationalists, but such cases didn't seem common... This page doesn't mention Republican use either http://www.amonio.es/canon_cc37_pak3536.htm

On the other hand, there should be added 37mm Bofors (from 1938? - http://www.sbhac.net/Republica/Fuerz...rtCC/ArtCC.htm) - eg. Polish unit 400. They were Polish, BTW.


102 Canon AT 37mm (Gochkisa) - obsolete Hotchkiss gun, should have worse penetration (Soviet weapon 12 37mm Hotchkiss has sabot pen. 3 at 4 hexes - the same as L21 Puteaux, but it had longer barrel, so maybe range should be better? Japanese 37mm Sogekiho has range 10)
Better icon is 8032 - current is too modern
Photo of similar gun is 28003 (drawing: http://www.sbhac.net/Republica/Fuerz...rtCC/ArtCC.htm)
However, according to that page, they could have been not numerous.

103 Canon AT 45mm - a dedicated icon for this weapon is 8022
According to numbers on the quoted page, it was by far most numerous Republican AT gun.

104 Canon AT 47mm - These guns could have been theoretically captured, but there is no mention on http://www.sbhac.net/Republica/Fuerz...rtCC/ArtCC.htm...
Dedicated icon for 47mm Breda is 8029
Picture 19726 is apparently Soviet 45mm (or Pak) - could be 2646

105 Canon 76.2mm AA - precisely, a weapon was obr.31, not obr.38 http://www.amonio.es/canon_aaruso_31.htm

106 Canon Inf 37mm - photo is definitely some heavier gun, should be 28004, like unit 107. Dedicated icon is 8033 or 8032

107 Canon Inf 37mm - icon as above.

The same Spain OOb33 unit 470, 471

108 Canon Inf 37mm - photo is some heavier gun, correct for 37mm Rosenberg is apparently 23524
According to http://www.sbhac.net/Republica/Fuerz...om/ArtAcom.htm probably a handful were delivered in autumn 1937 (now 11/36). It should rather be class 154 Infantry Howitzer, than AT-gun, with its lousy characteristics.

109,110 Canon Inf 40mm - there is no proper icon to show its weird look, but 2106 seems best
Sabot penetration 7 seems impossible - the same as excellent 2pdr gun with 40×304 mm ammunition, while Arellano had 40×96 mm... http://www.amonio.es/canon_arellano.htm
Commissioned in 1933, developed a few years back.

The same Spain OOB33 unit 472, 473

[Pibwl]

111 Canon Inf 65mm - few Italian captured guns http://www.amonio.es/canon_6517_ita.htm, couldn't have been used from 1930. Should be rather rare, along with unit 112 AT gun.

It's a detail, but a range is quoted as no more than 6500-6800 m (now 142)
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/65/17_Mod._1908/1913 - 6400m
http://www.regioesercito.it/armi/65-17.htm - 6500 m
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannon.../17_modello_13 - 6800 m
(the same for Spanish, Italian and RSI weapon #31 and Romanian #249)

Spain OOB33 units 420, 421, 474, 475 - icon is wrong long-barrel twin-trail field gun for the first two, and bigger 2120 for the latter - they should be unified (Republican OOB uses 2109, which seems better considering small calibre; Romanian OOB uses yet better 2108)
Same for Italian units 320, 321.
RSI units 320, 321 should be unified as well (they use bigger single-trail field gun 2110)
Instead of generic photo of some different infantry gun for Spanish guns, 2646 or 2647 could be used with clear 65/17 gun, or Italian 16169, or there is a nice WW1 photo https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...s_di_Mezdi.jpg which might look OK for Spain as well.


113,114 Canon Inf 70mm - standard Spanish inf-gun from 1930.
Range was 5000 m http://www.amonio.es/canon_7016.htm (now 90)
Alternative photo at http://www.sbhac.net/Republica/Fuerz...Artilleria.htm
(icon might be too big, used for FH - might be 2109)

It could be added also to Spain OOB33 - Nationalists had even more of them.


115 Canon Inf 76mm (Schneider) - probably Soviet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/76_mm_mountain_gun_M1909
Picture is wrong long-barrel FH, Romanian OOB uses picture 23043
(icon might be too big, used for FH - might be 2120)


116 Canon Inf 105mm - too small icon - http://www.amonio.es/obus_montana_105_11.htm - best seems 2115 or 2122
Range is 8000 m according to that page and 7850 m here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_...1919_Schneider (now 120)
Greek OOB uses photo 1221 for this gun.

Same for Spain OOb33 units 59 (already mentioned) and 477, using wrong long-barrel icons.

Spain OOB33:

Apart from mentioned above:

476,479 Canon Inf 75mm (leIG-18) - too heavy howitzer icon. German OOB uses icon 2120 and a picture 9404

478,480 Canon Inf 150mm (sIG-33) - German OOB uses icon 2116

482 25mm Canon AT - not used, especially by nationalists (French gun)

483 37mm TaK 30 - it was ordinary Pak 35/36 from the beginning http://www.amonio.es/canon_cc37_pak3536.htm
A dedicated icon for this and 461, 484, 487 is 8007

485 45mm PTP Obr.32 - a dedicated icon is 8022

486 47L32 Canon AT - a dedicated icon is 8029.
Photo is 65/17 infantry gun, not 47mm Breda AT. Could be 16151, like unit 462 (although in fact this is newer Modelo 1939 gun, what is evident by spoked wheels).
Same icon for unit 462 CTV C/C 47L32

488 50mm PaK38 Azul - a dedicated icon is 8010

[Pibwl]

Flak:

Spanish Republic

120 Canon AA 20mm - Oerlikons were used by Republican side (http://www.sbhac.net/Republica/Fuerz...rtAA/ArtAA.htm) - photo 17041 (current is Breda). Standard AA icon 64 might be better than wheeled AT gun.

121 Canon AA 37mm - very few http://www.sbhac.net/Republica/Fuerz...rtAA/ArtAA.htm

122 40mm Canon AA - photo is German 3,7cm - Bofors is eg. 2332, 2302, 6080 30203. Better dedicated icon seems 2808.
Same for Spain OOB33 unit 494

Spain
38 Vierling Azul - proper icon 63

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End of too detailed artillery, I guess. I hope that some suggestions help.

[Pibwl]

Spanish Republic

Misc:

182, 217 Amet St.Etienne - used rather from the beginning of the war only (http://www.sbhac.net/Republica/Fuerz.../Ametralla.htm, http://www.amonio.es/am_saint_etienne.htm)
Photo is not clear, but definitely not St Etienne, judging from the way the soldier holds a grip (there is Greek St Etiene photo 1220. The current photo is probably Greek Hotchkiss portative anyway).

186, 214 Amet. vz.37 - no sign of usage of this modern weapon at http://www.sbhac.net/Republica/Fuerz.../Ametralla.htm nor http://www.amonio.es/ametralladoras.htm

380 Esc de F.Amet - Maxim LMG should rather be 7.92mm (MG 08/15)


Aircraft

396 Hawker Furia - 110lb bombs are too heavy - according to Aircraft Profile 018 Hawker Fury: "most aircraft had provisions to for light bomb racks to carry 25lb practice bombs or flares" (already changed in British OOB).

398 I-153 Chaika - rather wasn't used - http://bioold.science.ku.dk/drnash/m...ain/didnt.html
(Photo is I-15 btw.)

406 Vildebeest MkIV - a detail, but it would be just Vildebeest without "Mk" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_Vildebeest. Single 1000lb is suspected. According to https://www.mojehobby.pl/zdjecia/3/0...azuFR018_1.jpg initially they had no bomb racks at all and used light bombs, then their armament is quoted to be 4x70 kg bombs. And deliveries started in 1935 (now 6/34)

AFV:

283 Trubria TSH - name should be Trubia. Icon should rather be 1363, like unit #475 (much smaller, BTW)

449,450 CB Protegido, CB Valencia - they should receive bigger icons, being converted trucks (I'll try to find some)

451 CB T-69 - it was built upon T-69 truck, but it was known as MC-36 http://director.io/tanquesyblindados.../mc36/mc36.htm, http://www.sbhac.net/Republica/Fuerz.../Blindados.htm, http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww...no_Suiza_MC-36
Main armament in a turret was clearly 7mm Hotchkiss (BMGs were possibly in sides)
Should be used from 1936 or even 1935 (pre-war police design)
I don't know if it matters, but several men could ride inside (reportedly ten according to Tank Encyclopedia)
Size might be 4, although it's an exception for armoured cars - it was very big.

453 CB UNL-35 - icon is a half-track car, best seems 90 with sticking out fenders. It also had a BMG (DT?)

454 CB Bilbao M 32 - size is too small (2) - they were high box-like vehicles http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww...o-modelo-1932/ Crew was 3 according to that page, but it could take 5 more men.
Speed is quoted to be only 50 km/h (now 24!)
MG was 7mm Hotchkiss (Spain rather didn't use 7.5mm FM at all).

Same for Nationalist unit 288. They also used Bilbao with a flamethrower http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww...o-modelo-1932/


470 Barbastro M 37 - MG was apparently 7mm Hotchkiss http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww...arbastro_tank/
Size should be 3 at least, rather 4 (now 2)
Crew was "reportedly 4"

471 Landesa M 36 - Carro Landesa had no turret, but one BMG. Icon should be different then (upper view http://www.minairons.eu/es/vehiculos...545321478.html) (and smaller) - maybe some tankette (219? 319?)

472 Trubia M 36 - better known just as Trubia Naval. According to Polish article on Trubia tanks (in "Poligon" 1/2013), used (and manufactured) from 3/37 only (now 10/36).
A better icon would be with central turret, rounded rear and without sticking-out fenders https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fb/ee...4acf225a14.jpg - the best seems 741

Same for Nationalist unit 293 (misspelled Trubria)

474 Renault M 17m - armament should be 7mm Hotchkiss

475 Trubia M 26 A1 - better known as Trubia A4 (eg https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanque_Ligero_Trubia, http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww...ubia_naval.php).
Turret armour was 16mm all around ("Poligon" 1/2013)

477 Trubia M 34 A4 - I've found no source, that would mention, that Trubia tank was armed with Arellano 40 mm gun (along with links above and "Blindados en Espana" book). On the other hand, article in "Poligon" 1/2013 claims, that an idea of arming the tank with a gun was abandoned due to weak under-turret plate.

Same for Nationalist unit 292 - it should be replaced with MG tank, which is lacking in Spain OOB33 (misspelled name Trubria)


Weapons:
#97 Trapote M31 LMG - it's hard to find any info about this weapon, but it is always qouted as M1933
http://www.sbhac.net/Republica/Fuerz...Subfusiles.htm, https://www.forgottenweapons.com/hotchkiss-m1922-lmg/
Same for Nationalist #97, which calls it M34.

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

449,450 CB Protegido, CB Valencia - they should receive bigger icons, being converted trucks (I'll try to find some)

449 CB Protegido - early armoured truck (Camion Protegido) from the 20s for colonial service (truck No.2 https://elfarodeceuta.es/los-primero...to-espanol-ii/ - sometimes captioned as Nash-Quad).
Best icon for the car pictured seems 3445 - current is a small car (and they were usually grey - "Estos camiones protegidos, nombre oficial que recibían, estaban pintados en gris" http://www.panzernet.com/articulos/h...rossps1_gh.htm)
Size should be 3 [now 2].
Used at least until 1934 (Asturia revolt).

It's a detail, but I'd lower its speed to 12-13 [now 14] - there are no data given anywhere, but it was early truck with 40 HP engine and extensive armour.. Most typical Nash-Quad and Latil were built upon 4x4 chassis, although I don't know if these heavy vehicles had off-road capabilities actually.

(BTW: it isn't clear if this peculiar vehicle on the photo wasn't a single one, most typical were boxy bodies on Latils chassis and others http://www.panzernet.com/articulos/h...rossps1_gh.htm, http://elrinconsapiente.blogspot.com...o-espanol.html, https://www.militar.org.ua/militar/t...n-Melilla.html ).


450 CB Valencia - a photo is Oteyza car, built in one unit, not much known http://www.panzernet.com/articulos/h...rossps1_gh.htm (there rather isn't known a specific car Valencia, which is a city name).

Maybe it's worth to replace it with Field armoured car from Barcelona, built in quite a long series of around 10 units? http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww...ructora-field/
For rounded Field, similar icon would be ADGZ: 4023 or green 4024

451 CB T-69 - it was built upon T-69 truck, but it was known as MC-36 ..
Main armament in a turret was clearly 7mm Hotchkiss (BMGs were possibly in sides)
...Size might be 4, although it's an exception for armoured cars - it was very big.

Picture as for its size http://minairons-news.blogspot.com/2...st-update.html

Same for Spain OOB33 unit 564 MC-36/T-26 - a variant with T-26 turret. It should rather have DT CMG instead of Lewis BMG (it had no BMG).
Spain also should have a basic MG-armed variant.

In both OObs they have different icon. Given its size and grey color, best seems 4329 (or smaller 3461)

452 CB FA-I - first delivered on 15 October 36 ('Komsomol' ship) [now 9/36] ("Blindados en Espana" book).

453 CB UNL-35 - icon is a half-track car, best seems 90 with sticking out fenders. It also had a BMG (DT?)

"Production started in early 1937... It is reported that they first saw service in the May Events in Barcelona, 1937" [now 9/36] - http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/Spain/UNL-35 and other sources

Speed was only 55 km/h according to "Blindados en Espana" [now 28] (even 50 km/h according to the page above)

Captured vehicles could be added to Spanish OOB (a couple moths later I guess). There are even some photos of captured vehicles http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/Spain/UNL-35

454 CB Bilbao M 32 - size is too small (2) - they were high box-like vehicles http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww...o-modelo-1932/ Crew was 3 according to that page, but it could take 5 more men.
Speed is quoted to be only 50 km/h (now 24!)
MG was 7mm Hotchkiss (Spain rather didn't use 7.5mm FM at all).

Better icon is 3445 (upper view http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/...TMuanBn/?ref=1) - current is a narrow halftrack.

Same for Nationalist unit 288.

455,456 CB Modelo 37 - known as AAC-1937. Produced from 4/37, used from May [now 2/37] http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww...n/AAC-1937.php The one with 45mm gun was a rare variant, should probably start later, using cannibalized turrets (by the end of 1937?), and should also have DT CMG.
Quite common early variant was also with BMG and French 37 mm gun (however their barrels are apparently longer, than Puteaux SA-18 tank gun or TR-16 infantry gun... Maybe Soviet Hotchkiss, with some better performance?)

The same for Spain OOB33 unit 290 CB Modelo 39 - name "39" seems wrong. They rather had standard Soviet 45mm gun in T-26 turret, not 47mm gun. Sure they were used earlier, than 4/39 (with several month delay to the republican side?). Probably captured MG-armed cars were more common.

BTW: several 37mm-armed and MG-armed cars ended up in France and were used in action in 6/40 (confirmed in Trackstory 20).

475 Trubia M 26 A1 - better known as Trubia A4 (eg https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanque_Ligero_Trubia,

http://elrinconsapiente.blogspot.com...o-espanol.html says there were tanks A-1...A-4 (despite most sources use A4 for all series), so maybe the most precise name would be "Trubia serie A", as sources also use (including "Blindados en Espana" book).

[Pibwl]

Spain OOB33:

29 SdKfz 223 (Fu) - photo is SdKfz 221, could be 27523

287 CB FA-I - if they were delivered in 10/36 to Republic, it seems it should take a couple months before they were captured and reused.. [now 9/36] Same for 289 CB BA-6 delivered at the same time.

294, 304 CCI Tipo 1937 - I've found no information, that MG-only armed variant existed, only 20mm one is described. Anyway, it was one prototype, so the first entry should end before the second one. BMG was actually twin 7 mm Hotchkiss.
Speed was only 36 km/h [now 15] - "Blindados en Espana" book and http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww...CI-Tipo-37.php

298,299 CL T-26 (E) - better photo with Nationalist markings is 18083 (as unit 295)

301 Verdeja I - with is extremely low profile, size might be 2 - http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww...n/verdeja-no-1
CMGs should be twin, not separate.
The only prototype was tested already from 1/39 [now 4/39]

306 Verdeja II - it's actually Verdeja SPG http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww...7540mm-verdeja , not Verdeja II http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww...n/verdeja-no-2 (which was a prototype tank from 8/44)
Verdeja SPG was rebuilt from Verdeja I not earlier, than in May 1945

409,410 CTV Lancia IZ, IZM - according to "Blindados en Espana" book, both variants disembarked on 22 December 36 [now 6/36 and 2/37]. Armament of Lancia IZM was two independent MGs in a turret and rear MG. Now it has twin MG and a BMG, but turret MGs were individually operated, so maybe they should be single #228 TMG, while rear MG had no practical usage apart from withdrawing. Lancia IZ has a single 6.5mm MG now, but it should have two as well. It also had a single smaller top MG turret, but it isn't clear if they were mounted anymore.
Better icon is 1494, more similar and with two machine guns.
Crew according to that book and https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancia_1Z was 6 (as in Italian OOB).

Same for units 415,416 Lancia IZ, IZM (which use different icon BTW)

BTW: same for Italian OOB units 65,66 Lancia IZ, IZM as for icon (or variants 1495, 1497) and weapons

346 Infanteria Azul - a minor thing, but a picture are German FJg with their specific helmets

That should be all for Spains.

[Pibwl]

I've noticed one more thing, while reading Polish article on German attack aircraft:

Spain OOB33:
378 He 51 Cadenas, 379 CASA C- 51 - bomb load 500kg is impossible for this plane (all useful load was 440 kg) - and the quoted article explicitly says, that He 51 were first used by Nationalists as pure strafers, then Legion Condor started to employ them with 6x10 kg bombs (the same load in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He_51) - from early 1937, I guess? (the Legion arrived in November).

From late 1937 there was produced attack variant He 51C-1 with 4x50 kg bombs, which appeared in Spain, but I don't know when.

BTW: I think that name CASA is not justified, since they weren't manufactured in Spain; neither Spanish Wikipedia uses it https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He_51


Same for German OOB unit 340 He 51 - early one could use 6x10 kg bombs at best [now 2x50 kg]

Apparently the same for Bulgarian unit 157 He 51 Sokol - they were He 51B (Bulgarian book "Air Power of the Kingdom of Bulgaria" vol.3 indicates 2 MGs only anyway, so it isn't clear if they had bomb racks at all...)

Spain:
374 Ju 87B1 Stupido, 375 CASA C-87B - typical single bomb was 500 kg, 1000 kg could be carried with overload (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_87) - and I don't know if such heavy bombs wee used in Spain, anyway typical variant might be better.

BTW: it isn't clear, if they and 376 CASA C-87G were used in Spain after SCW at all - Legion Condor ones returned to Germany, and it is strange, that Spanish Wikipedia doesn't list Spain among users at all... https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_87. Neither Wings Palette lists any Spanish color profiles apart from SCW http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/b/29/67

370, 371 Breda Ba.65 - although Italian Wikipedia says "1000 kg (carico teorico)" (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breda_Ba.65) but in fact according to articles they could take 4 x max 100kg in a bomb bay (though usually it was 4x50kg). Spanish Wikipedia confirms 50 and 100 kg bombs https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breda_Ba.65 - and doesn't mention, that Bredas were used after SCW...

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

Spanish Republic

380 Esc de F.Amet - Maxim LMG should rather be 7.92mm (MG 08/15)

Self-correction: it may be 7.62mm Maxim-Tokarev LMG indeed.
I'm attaching some clearer photos, and others, that might be useful.

(there was also used a big number of Czech vz.26 LMG, but I don't know if it's worth bother to create another unit)
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402 Super Chato - photo is ordinary I-15 Chato. I've found only one photo of I-15bis described as Spanish (attached)

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Photo of 76mm M.1909 mountain gun is lacking in the game, apart from Rep. Spanish OOB, Romanian OOB uses for unit 133 different 76mm M.1910 short gun.