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  #1  
Old July 18th, 2020, 07:50 PM

Pibwl Pibwl is offline
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Default Re: Soviet OOB11 - 2020

Aircraft:


In most cases I took the information from Russian books on specific aircraft.

75 Pe-2 - introduced to units in spring of 1941 only (now: 1/40), according to Polish article on Pe-2 and Russian Wikipedia. They remained in use until the end of the war.
Bombs should be 250 kg instead of 500 lbs. The other typical bomb load was 6x100 kg.

4x250 kg, theoretically possible, was rather optimistic maximum load 1000 kg. According to the article, more realistic max load was 2x250 kg and 2x100 kg.

From 9/41 there were adopted and used in combat near Moscow small 10-20 kg bombs, of which they could carry presumably approximately 50-25 in special boxes in a bomb bay. Though I don't know if such variant is useful.


76, 425, 426 SB-2 - bombs in #76 should be 100 kg instead of 250 lbs - it could carry 6x100 kg.

In fact, the aircraft designation was just SB - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_SB . SB-2 was a misnomer coming from engines' designation, eg. SB-2M-100 - with two M-100 engines. First few aircraft (with M-100 engines) were delivered in 2/36 (correct date), but in bigger number they equipped regiments only from mid-36, according to a Russian book on SB.

427, 428 SB-2 - only from 9/38 there were produced aircraft with M-103 engines and bigger bomb load (now 1/38).

If you'd like an own photo for M-103 variant: http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bww2/sb2/sb-8.jpg , http://www.airaces.ru/images/aircraft/sb_2.jpg , https://images.app.goo.gl/rCYwfKo2h1SiXq2z9


79 Il-4 - used from mid-40 (now 2/42) (actually, only from 3/42 DB-3F was renamed Il-4, what might explain its late introduction). 2500 kg was max load.

80, 421, 665 Tu-2s - bombs should be 500 kg instead of 1000 lbs and 250 kg instead of 500lbs. Name was written Tu-2S.

According to the Russian book, Tu-2S were used in combat from 6/44 (now 8/44). (Earlier, since 9/42 there were used ordinary Tu-2, however until 1944 they were little numerous).

There could be also a variant with 1x1000 kg and 2x500 kg bombs (max load 2000 kg, normal 1000 kg).
As a fighter-bomber, 8x250 kg rather wasn't possible: there were 4x250 kg in a bomb bay and two bombs on external pods (250 kg or 500 kg in a maximum variant)


86 Yak-9B - photo is ordinary Yak-9 fighter, Yak-9B bomber is 4165. There are also photos with bombs at http://wio.ru/gal2a/galyak9.htm and http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/yak9b.html
It is not clear when they entered service - acceptance trials were in 12/44, but a small series had been already built after the first flight some time after 3/44. I've found an information in one book, that they were used in combat already in 10/44.

554 Yak-9B - used probably from 10/44, like the unit above - for sure not from 5/43.
It carried 128 (4x32) PTAB bomblets, so it probably it should be twice less, than Il-2, which carried 280, and also has 4.


130 I-16 - I-16 with rockets were first used at Khalkhyn-Gol in 8/39, however they were first applied as anti-aicraft weapon then. I don't known when they started to be used with air-to-ground rockets. On the other hand, #215 I-15 is armed with rockets from 8/39 alreaady.



131 Sukhoi Su-2 - introduced to units only in 1/41 (now 1/40).
Rocket armament was an exception on this type, and introduced only in autumn 1941, on some aircraft, according to a book on this type by D. Khazanov. I'd remove rockets or double it as a pure bomber, which was its primary usage.
Soviet typical bombs were 100 kg, not 120 kg. Typical Su-2 load was 4x100 or 2x250 kg.

It could be also a level bomber with 6x100kg bombs (max load).
There were also variants with smaller bombs, eg. 20x20 kg

At least from mid-42 until end of 1943 Su-2 were also employed as fast artillery spotter planes.
According to the book, from mid-43 a standard spotter plane became Il-2 (it could be added).


139 Yak-9T, 411 Yak-9U - no Russian books mention, that Yak-9s (apart from bomber Yak-9B) ever carried bombs or rockets, and there are no such photos known either. Only guns are mentioned as weaponry (eg. Yak9T http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/yak9t.html and Yak-9U http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/yak9u-107.html ). Seems, that during later course of the war the Soviets left ground attacks to specialized Il-2 rather.

Yak-9T was used fom 7/43 only, when military combat evaluation started (now 3/43) until the end (now 44).
It should only one 12.7mm MG.


141 La-5FN
- there were no 75 kg bombs in Soviet inventory. But La-5 could carry 2x100kg instead from a beginning http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/la5.html
There's no reason why it shouldn't be available from 10/42, like other La-5FNs (now: 10/43)
In fact, all La-5FN could be renamed to La-5, because FN variant appeared only in 7/43 (armament was the same).

147 La-5FN - Russian books mention only bomb armament of La-5, not PTAB bomblets, which would need special bays in an airframe. There were no cluster bombs at that time either. To be removed IMO.


142 Il-2 Shturmovik - use of Il-2 with 37 mm guns probably ended earlier (by mid-44?) - they were considered less effective, heavier and production ceased in 11/43, according to an article in "Tekhnika i Vooruzhenie" 1/2009.
The name might be Il-2 NS-37 to differentiate.
Russian Wikipedia states https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%D0%BB-2 that this variant could not carry RS rockets (according to the article, the pilot was focussed on aiming cannons anyway).

If you'd like an own photo of this variant, here are some http://www.airwar.ru/enc/aww2/il2-ns37.html

218 Il-2 Shturmovik - Il-2 with PTAB bomblets were first used in combat in 7/43 according to an article in "Tekhnika i Vooruzhenie" 2008 (now 3/43)

223, 226, 663 Il-10 - actually used in combat from 4/45 (now 1/45)


202 A-20G, 219 Douglas A-20B, 454 B-25 Mitchell - presumably they carried Russian 500 kg, 250 kg and 100 kg bombs instead of 1000, 500 and 250 lbs (were bombs ever delivered by Lend-Lease Act?..)
It concerns also units 85, 409, 412, 413, 424

Edit: I've found an info in Russian book, that bomb racks in A-20 were modified to carry Soviet bombs: 4x250 kg or 8x100 kg. First A-20 were delivered in 7/42 and entered service in late 42 (concerns #219 level bomber). Later they were evidently fitted to carry heavier bombs, although they were mostly directed to naval aviation (concerns especially A-20G).

Edit2: I've found a better book by V. Kotelnikov, in which he claims, that early A-20 were all known in the USSR first of all as Boston-3 (Boston III, B-3 in short) and they entered combat service in May-June 1942. It should be also available as fighter-bomber then. Frontal armament were 4 MGs, often replaced with two 12.7mm UB starting from 9/42. Initial variant could carry 4x250 or 4x100 kg, from 8/42 also 8x100 kg.

213 Polikarpov I-15 - it should have only 2 MGs http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/i15.html

214 Polikarpov I-15 - actually it's I-15bis with increased bomb load http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/i15b.html (photos on that page if needed).

227 Polikarpov R-5 - there were no 75 kg bombs. It could carry 4x 100 kg or 8-10x 50 kg - according to Russian book on R-5, max load was 500 kg and such bomb sizes were used, on ten pods. At least from 1932 they could carry also 2x 250kg bombs.

It should be doubled as AOP plane as well, being the most typical Soviet close recce plane in the 1930s.


416, 417 R-Z [level bomber] - according to Russian book Aviakollekcya 5/2009 on R-Z and http://www.airwar.ru/enc/other1/rz.html, first series was given to units only in 6/36 (now 2/35 in 416 and 5/37 in 417)

Typical Russian bomb was 100 kg, not 120 kg (#416 could carry 2x100kg and 4x50kg or 4x100 kg).
Variant 417 with 20x20 kg bombs rather isn't possible, as the plane had eight pods and there are given variants 8x8 kg, 8x10 kg, 8x50 kg etc)
It could carry also 2x250 kg

It is worth to copy it as a fighter-bomber (the same load as R-5, but better speed). Armament was one #159 7.62mm MG

BTW: as for Spanish Republic OOB units 411,412 R-Z Natacha - a photo with Spanish markings is 1041, like unit 400. Same as above - variant #412 with 21x20 kg bombs rather wasn't possible.


418 DB-3 - used from 1937/38, might be 1/38 (now 4/39)

470 Yermolaev Yer-2 - according to Russian book on Yer-2, it could not carry 4 bombs 1000 kg - only 2x 1000 kg on external pods and 4x 500 kg in a bomb bay in maximum configuration.

735 Pe-2 - I have no information if Pe-2 used PTAB bomblets, but surely not before 7/43, when PTAB debuted with Il-2. (I suppose not - they attacked German columns with bunches of ordinary small bombs in 1941-42)

Last edited by Pibwl; July 19th, 2020 at 10:29 AM..
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  #2  
Old July 20th, 2020, 05:12 PM

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Default Re: Soviet OOB11 - 2020

125, 416 I-16 - I was surprised to find in 2008 book by Mikhail Maslov, that I-16 weren't fitted to carry bombs as a standard, apart from few experimental and not accepted machines. Only in the first half of 1941 part of I-16 were refitted with I-153-type bomb pods, for only 2x100 kg bombs (now they are available earlier and have 4x50 kg bombs).

The I-16 could also be a pure strafer with 20 mm cannons - first mass variant with cannons Type 17 appeared in service around 1/39, like unit #125.

(I'm not counting here bizzare small series dive bomber I-16SPB, which could not take off by its own and was carried airborne by TB-3 bomber)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pibwl View Post
130 I-16 - I-16 with rockets were first used at Khalkhyn-Gol in 8/39, however they were first applied as anti-aicraft weapon then. I don't known when they started to be used with air-to-ground rockets.
After rethinking and reading, it's best to set a starting date for RS armed aircraft in spring of 1941. In 1939 rockets were used against Japan in anti-aircraft role only, while they were not used against Finland (or Poland). In 8/1940 the Soviet air force changed mind and ordered to remove rocket launchers. They started to be fitted again on part of I-16s from beginning of 1941. In late 1941 they became more popular.

Quote:
213 Polikarpov I-15 - it should have only 2 MGs http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/i15.html
Sorry, books say, that basic I-15 had 4 MGs (even on the quoted page inside the text). However, I-15 appeared in units only in late 1934, and in bigger numbers in summer 1935 (now: 4/34) (book by M. Maslov). I-15 with this armament (4x10 kg bombs) were used longer, than 3/37 - by end of 1938 (fighting with Japan)

Quote:
214 Polikarpov I-15 - actually it's I-15bis with increased bomb load
I suggest names just "I-15bis", like "I-16". It could also carry 4x25 kg bombs instead. I-15bis were quite typical as specialized attack a/c in 1941.

215 Polikarpov I-15 - I think, that rocket-armed aircraft should rather be I-153 - it was its typical armament since late 1940, and it carried 8 rockets. According to Maslov's book, I-15bis retrofitted with rockets carried only 4 (now it has 6). The date should be modified however - they were mounted in a number in late 1940, only after the problem with wing deformation was solved.
The change to I-153 won't need a new icon.

Armament with two 12.7mm MGs apparently remained only experimental on I-153 because of too low production of BS MGs. There was only a small series rearmed with one 12.7mm and two 7.62mm MGs - a standard armament remained four 7.62mm. There is no information about any trials to rearm I-15 with 12.7mm MGs.

There was also an attack variant I-163Sh with eight 7.62mm MGs (four in pods), but I guess it's useless.

423 Pe-8 - according to the book, in addition to two 1000kg bombs (on external mounts) it could carry only four 500 kg ones (in a bomb bay) (now: six), or eight 250 kg.
Other variants were: 4x 1000 kg or 12x 250 kg.
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  #3  
Old July 20th, 2020, 05:45 PM

Pibwl Pibwl is offline
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Default Re: Soviet OOB11 - 2020

673 BK1124 Boat - initial armament was two #34 KT-28 guns (T-28 tank turrets). From 1940 there might have been mounted current #50 L-11 gun and there were twin 12.7mm DShK AAMG. Later there were mounted #51 F-34 guns (T-34 turrets).
(According to "Enciklopedia monitorov" book)

More correct name is BKA Pr1124 Boat - abbreviation was BKA, "pr" is a short of "project 1124". Out of curiosity, upper view https://images.app.goo.gl/MXXvB5hBC4NBSkCk9

674 BK1125 Boat - the same remarks as for armament and name.
Icon should be different, than the above one, eg. 711.
(line drawing: https://www.klueser.de/pic/PanzerkutterBKA112x_HP.JPG )


There might be added a numerous light river armoured patrol boat, eg. copied with changes from Nat. Chinese OOB #79 - the photo seems to be a typical Soviet boat. Armament should be one #139 MG and naval 37 mm gun (012 37mm Hotchkiss?). Used from 1/30. Better icon however is 705.

I don't thnink anybody would want to create SB-37 class river monitor, with 2x102 mm and 3x45 mm guns https://i.pinimg.com/originals/76/74...fa4f71e4a1.jpg

----


Weapons:


112 Tokarev ST38/40 - better name is Tokarev SVT - the rifle's name was SVT, 1938 or 1940 only marked model

114 Tokarev TT-33 - I suggest TT-33 Pistol or better just TT Pistol, as they were known in Russia (https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D0%A2 ), so that everybody knows what is this.


That's basically all as for the USSR.

Last edited by Pibwl; July 20th, 2020 at 06:30 PM..
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  #4  
Old July 21st, 2020, 03:22 AM
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Default Re: Soviet OOB11 - 2020

Great page http://wio.ru has an excelent tables about soviet riverine forces.

http://wio.ru/fleet/ww2armorb.htm


There is also table with diferent variants of weapons on Polikarpov fighters

http://wio.ru/tacftr/polikarp.htm
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Old August 13th, 2020, 03:26 PM

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Default Re: Soviet OOB11 - 2020

Finally I could research DB-3 and Il-4 in Russian book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pibwl View Post

79 Il-4 - used from mid-40 (now 2/42) (actually, only from 3/42 DB-3F was renamed Il-4, what might explain its late introduction). 2500 kg was max load.

418 DB-3 - used from 1937/38, might be 1/38 (now 4/39)
In fact, both aircraft carried the same load, but they couldn't carry 25 x 100 kg nor 10 x 250 kg bombs - there were only ten racks for max 100 kg bombs in a bomb bay and three racks for bigger bombs under a fuselage.

Maximum number of bombs was 14 x 100 kg (possibly two bombs on one central rack?).
Bigger load was 10x100 kg and 3x250 kg.
Maximum load 2500 kg for close distance was apparently 10x100 kg, 2x250kg and 1x1000 kg.
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