Ukraine 2021(?)

[DRG]

Originally Posted by lukerduker123

Just a reminder, if it isn't already implemented, that the heavy use of mines in Ukraine means it might be best if they're taken off the Ottawa convention list.

Just because there is "heavy use of mines in Ukraine" does NOT mean Ukraine is using them

The Ottawa treaty was a "wonderful" virtue signalling idea for nations that knew they would never be put into a situation where they would need to lay mines for defence.

The rest quietly put them into storage or at least keep all the machinery needed to make them well-maintained in storage

THAT SAID I can find LOTS of reports that Russia is using them ( but they didn't sign )...

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/09/15...ne-land-mines/
https://www.wired.com/story/russian-...gical-warfare/

...... but I have not read anything about their being used BY Ukraine but that doesn't mean anything ,,, the info that they are could be suppressed... or the info could be coming from Russia which means nothing much really..... it's easy to say the other side is doing exactly what you are doing to justify what you are doing.... so what sources do you have that support this ???

[MarkSheppard]

Human Rights Watch has accused Ukraine of using rocket delivered FASCAM AP mines.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/01/31/...harm-civilians

In 2021, Ukraine reported to the UN secretary-general that 3.3 million stockpiled PFM mines still need to be destroyed. According to Ukrainian officials, the only type of antipersonnel mines remaining in Ukraine’s stockpiles are PFM mines contained in 9M27K3 220mm rockets.

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by DRG

The Ottawa treaty was a "wonderful" virtue signalling idea for nations that knew they would never be put into a situation where they would need to lay mines for defence.

The rest quietly put them into storage or at least keep all the machinery needed to make them well-maintained in storage

At least Biden's recent virtue signaling said the US would continue to use mines in Korea.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

POTUS's virtue has gone above and beyond then because we are sending Taiwan the VOLCANO battlefield mining system.

We didn't sign all parts of the OTTAWA Treaty, and this is an example of how we got around it (As we do have the anti-personnel canisters for ourselves.) on the non-proliferation issue by NOT sending Taiwan the anti-personal canisters we'll instead we'll be sending them ONLY the anti-tank ones. Which fulfills our obligations. You can read the rest for yourselves.
https://www.popsci.com/technology/us...enser-systems/
https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/tai.../17/2003792745

So, with that in mind, we could send the same system to the Ukraine, and nobody would be offended or bothered. Russia used them to open the Campaign and they were dropping anti-personnel as well.

There is a "tingling sensation" on the web that they may try to slip it into the most recent $2+ Billion-dollar aid package.

All I'm saying there are loopholes and we're exploiting them on the "non-proliferation" side. I would not be surprised if we send them there by Spring or early Summer. Don't kind yourselves if we're doing for Taiwan (And pissing China for it.) Ukraine isn't a reach either.

Whether you like "Uncle Joe" or not and I don't care either way, he's done more than the last two Presidents combined to get weapons to the Ukraine and align NATO plus the same can be said about Taiwan going even further back. For China systems like VOLCANO, F-16V and ABRAMS were "Redlines" WELL we've made them,
"GREENLINES"

You have to remember he had 40 years in the Senate through the Cold War and beyond. In Putin he sees Stalin and the Soviet Union, with Xi Ping it's Mao and Communist China. and he's "spitting in their eyes" right now.

Just food for thought in a neutral biased way.

Regards,
Pat