Defeating the Talisman

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by DavidG:
Although I've never had a big battle against the talisman 80 vs 32 and losing sounds like something else may have contributed too. Like maybe the level of armour, shields, sensors etc. Could 32 talisman DN's beat 80 idendtical non talisman DN's with the highest possible combat sensors?

Possibly David G, I'd have to run some tests, if the non-trailsman player was using optimal range or something like that for a strategy. One of the biggest keys to beating a tailsman player in a battle is to change your ships strategy to point blank. This helps overcome the advantage of the Tailsman never missing because your ships will almost never miss at point blank assumning they have decent Combat sensors and or experience. This will allow roughly equal weapons tech and greater numbers to overcome the Tailsman equiped race. But you are going to take a beating. You have be prepared for that going in.

Geoschmo

[Grandpa Kim]

Originally posted by DavidG:
Although I've never had a big battle against the talisman 80 vs 32 and losing sounds like something else may have contributed too. Like maybe the level of armour, shields, sensors etc. Could 32 talisman DN's beat 80 idendtical non talisman DN's with the highest possible combat sensors?

Rats! Geo beat me to it!

I will add, with optimum strategies (ie lots at point blank) and max fleet and ship training, the Talisman equipped fleet is dead. IF the Talisman fleet has max fleet and ship training too, you could lose. The big fleet will be missing a lot of shots against the additional 40% defense modifier. As well, with 80 ships you run into traffic problems-- not all those ships will be able to get in close, at least not right away.

[geoschmo]

Basically the key to fleet warfare is hitting the other guy more than he hits you. The Tailsman is admitadly the ultimate SEIV tool to that effect. However, that does not mean the player using it is unbeatable, because there are other ways to beat someone in SEIV than to simply line up fleet to fleet and pound away at each other.

Beating the tailsman player takes unconventional warfare. It takes diplomacy, intelligence, research, production. It takes creativity, and ruthlessness. It may take pulling every trick out of your bag, and it may take coming up with a few new ones you've never heard of.

But as Grandpa Kim put it so well, one sure way to guarantee you won't beat the tailsman is by quitting.

Some of my favorite games have been after I reached the point of having no possibility of victory. Becasue that's when I am free to experiment and improvise. When the cause is loast anyway is a perfect time to take bold risks and wild plans. If they fail it makes no diffeerence. If they succeed, even in a small measure, you have learned something that can be used in a future game.

Heh, sorry to get preachy, maybe this post should go in the philosophy thread.

Geoschmo

[Zanthis]

With 80 DN, avoid most traffic issues by making half of them into missile ships. 40 DN can throw a ton of missiles. PDC will not be able to stop fire concentrated on 8 ships at one edge of his group. Use the other 40 as beam ships, focusing on closer ranged weapons. He must close to beam range of your missile ships or he will die. Your beam ships are there to get in his way. Shield regen comp. and rotating your front line of beam ships will keep him from sitting out of range of your ships and picking them off. Not to mention your missile ships will be steadily killing him off.

Beam ships: try PPB (even though he has phased, they still deal better damage with slightly less range). Ripper beam is good in close. Yeah, its only range 3, but you can make him get that close. On top of that, using shield depleters can help if he is too strongly shielded. Say one per ship. Also, consider Ionic disperser to kill engines. Keep your fleet moving and as you kill engines off. Leave those crippled ships to be picked off with missile fire later, possibly even in a different battle (not like they're going anywhere in the system with no engines).

If you have to fight in strategic mode, it gets more annoying. But it is certainly doable.

[Skulky]

While people may say that in the end game the missile ship is dead i totally disagree, a mix organic/standard missile baseship can be produced in 3 turns, as opposed to 1 year or more for a conventional baseship. each can throw about 20 missiles every other turn and another 8 every three turns. if you line up 10 or 15 of these no PDC will stop you, and if someone does build enough PDC to stop that you should just switch back to other designs.

Don't bother with fighters when fighting the Talisman, they will die fast as any ECM/to hit modifiers are wasted.

Drones in gold may be a useful strategy. When playing a talisman you can't out mass 2 or 3:1 with raw KT and firepower then try to pick your battles and draw him out, (then lay mines behind him while you head straight for his home worlds). Try fitting destroyers with plauge bombs and a little armor then sending one at EACH of his planets (lvl 5 will kill ppl real fast). how about luring him into a system of yours and then blow the star? also, get allies against him! BUT WHATEVER YOU DO, AND I HOPE Undertakr tells his friend this, DONT'T QUIT, that is weak and you don't learn anything (i know its been said before but im get so pissed at ppl like that, it ruins the game to a degree as well)

---
keep fighting and if all else fails take religious too

[Gozra]

In the hands of an expert the talisman can be devestating. But there are many tactics and ship designs that can overcome the Talisman. Build Fighter escorts for the missiles. Classic Guerillia warfare Strike where the enemy is weak retreat where the enemy is strong. And most of all if the Talisman Empire is trying to fight 2-4 other empires all at once I seriously doubt the Talisman can save him.
A well prepared warp defense point can also take the stuffing out of a Talisman fleet. Since both fleets start at point blank range. And I must point out that Combined arms( I have yet to try it) would probably win the day Missile Boats, Fighters, Drones, Beam Barges, And good ole dreadnoughts can probably go head to head with a Talisman fleet. At least that is what my Navel stratgist tell me.

[Grandpa Kim]

In the hands of an expert the talisman can be devestating.

Okay, on your honor.... NOBODY tell Askan about the talisman!