A Solid Cruiser Design

[Noble713]

Ok, here is its current incarnation:


Cruiser - Attack Ship

Cost:
11kT Minerals, 200 Organics, 1800 Radioactives

Components:
1x Bridge, 2x Life Support, 2x Crew Quaters, 6x Contra-Terrene Engine II, 1x Multiplex Tracking 4, 1x Combat Sensors III, 1x ECM III, 2x Point-Defense Cannons V, 8x Meson BLaster VI (large mounts), 2x Shield Generator V


Since I designed this thing 30 turns ago, the 46 ships of the class (new construction and refits) have destroyed 32 megatons of enemy ships (equivalent of 32 dreadnoughts). This is more than my two BB designs combined (which are just as numerous).

How I use them:
These cruisers form a wall in the front fleet, with my missile-armed DDs and BBs clustered behind the central cruisers. The cruisers charge forward with the Capital Ship Missile V's accompanying them. The AI usually backs up a bit, then turns around to engage my cruisers. The cruisers bLast away at the AI dread's superior shields (Phased Shield V's, usually), then the missiles swarm in, knocking down any remaining shields and overkilling a few ships (I tend to concentrate my missile fire). The cruisers finish off any cripples and annihilate comparably-sized ships. The battle ends without my fleet sustaining any internal damage.

Pros: Plenty of firepower from the MB-VIs, faster than most capital ships (or old designs), strong ECM/ECCM suite for effective use of firepower, and easy for advanced empires to produce.

Cons: No phased shields (just researched Phased Shields IV, the 1st effective Phased Shield), no missile support, outranged by bigger guns (WMGs, Graviton Hellbore, etc.), fairly expensive for a cruiser, slower than more advanced ships.

With a numerical advantage and a little missile support, these things can knock out Groups of organic-equipped dreadnoughts with ease.

If anyone else has some designs that have proven incredibly effect, please post them and a similar description.

[This message has been edited by Noble713 (edited 13 January 2001).]

[Tomgs]

Well the only thing I would ask is why not Phased poleron beams instead of the meson bLasters. They have the same range and do more damage. Even though the AI is using phased shields the greater damage is still better. I almost never research Meson BLasters anymore because you just get more bang for the buck with the PPB's.

[Noble713]

quote:

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Originally posted by Tomgs:
Well the only thing I would ask is why not Phased poleron beams instead of the meson bLasters. They have the same range and do more damage. Even though the AI is using phased shields the greater damage is still better. I almost never research Meson BLasters anymore because you just get more bang for the buck with the PPB's.

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The Last time I used PPBs I found them too easy to acquire, and I annihilated every AI ship I came across. Using Meson BLasters provides more of a challenge without excessively handicapping your fleet. I'll NEVER use Anti-Proton Beams; that would be suicide.

[Blue Lord]

This so called "solid crusier" of you'rs seems moree like a support ship to you're missile ships. Would 1 of these cruiser's survive 2 hostile crusiers? I don't think this ship is independant enough.

[Taqwus]

I'd be curious about what Organic Dreadnoughts you've been going against, considering that Organic isn't exactly lacking in nasty range-8 weapons. FWIW, EAGs are the *only* Range 8 weapon with a base damage of 100+ normal that can hit satellites and fighters, IIRC; WMGs, Magnifiers, Mental Singularity weapons, Graviton Hellbores, and Tachyon Cannons are all anti-Ship/Planet-only.

Also since you're fighting Organic, be warned that Organic races can make superb fighters -- the Small Electric Discharge vies for the nastiest fighter weapon available, doing up to 20 at range 3 per turn per fighter.

On that ship, I'd gladly sacrifice a bLaster for a Solar Sail; since you're using weapons with a max range of 6, speed will help you go in and out of your opponent's range and keep you alive. *Maybe* a repulsor beam, but I don't like 'em because their range is lousy.


====
A few specialist designs I've put to service (configurations from memory, so may be dodgy/sketchy) --


[ Standard kit on all the following. All the ships described below are designed to operate *solo*, dispersed, to reduce the defensive value of the Main Fleet strategy. Consequently, they must be FAST and stealthy. The need for speed is why none of the following are DNs; to get 11/6 in a DN, you need to spend 1000 pts for Advanced Prop.

In fact, I often ignore Main Fleets and go instead for the planets that support them; a fleet w/o supply, or falling to pieces due to maintenance problems, is a liability, not an asset. ]

- Max engines
- Solar sail
- Cloaking device
- Quantum reactor
- ECM and Combat Sensors
- Master Computer (Late game... and losses are extremely rare, so I don't exactly need to build hordes of them anyway)
- [ Tachyon | Hyper Optics | etc ] Sensors III

Weapon mounts are always the largest possible for the ship size.

=== Biowarfare Ship ===
* Battle Cruiser hull, normally
* Standard kit, plus
* 4x Plague Bomb (in case the damage # is a probability)
* 1x Medical Bay (if the poor sap surrenders, or alternately to help out in my own space. You can't prevent or cure a Level 4 or 5 Plague w/o a Medical Bay ship, anyway).
* 4-5 PDCs (because many planets may have missile-carrying WPs)
* The rest divided between shields and armor, pref. at least 1500 Shield pts (to absorb a salvo of missiles if need be)

Role -- Cause plagues all over the place. Incidentally, these tend to gain large amounts of XP by shooting down missiles from planets they've just plagued. Plagues kill quickly, and until they finish cause rioting which is almost as good from my perspective, since it neutralizes their production.


=== BC Aegis ===
* Same as above, except substitute PDCs for medical/plague foo.

Role -- The exception to the rule of working solo. But, it's usually only needed (in my LARGE games with late-game, high-tech wars) defending other ships from carriers, since w/ QE+Solar Sail means you are as fast as the fastest missiles.


=== BB Stalker ===

* Standard kit, plus
* 1x Shield Depleter
* 2x EAGs
* 1x Hyper Plasma
* 4x PDCs (maybe 5, but I don't think so)
* 4x Shield, pref. Phased
* 3x Armor (hey, it's Organic, so it's tough -- and Crystalline is *very* common, anyway, so more armor isn't THAT useful)
* Long Range Scanner

Role -- Recon, for finding out where bombers and plague ships should go; also, for killing the spy satellites that'd alert the defenders to the bombers/plague ships. Standard kit means it's fast enough to take on most AI-designed DN fleets solo, as well, but the real emphasis is still on finding useful enemy worlds and obliterating their colonists.

The scanner's a nice perk; for instance, I don't need to bother expending MPs on killing an empty transport or colony ship when I'd rather glass a planet. And I can kill the spy satellite stacks first, rather than combat sats. Also, it lets you see whether an enemy fleet has supply problems, and therefore whether you should let them take unlikely shots at range 8 to make them be out of supply for the next pass (and thus shield-less).

In my current game (ca. turn 285 or so) I've lost only 1 warship that I built, and it was of this class -- it went through a warp point, and got ambushed by a fleet of 13+ ships, including 8 DNs, having been spotted by a satellite elsewhere in the system. It still managed to destroy a BC, a BB, and damage a DN before going down, despite starting at point-blank range where it's not supposed to be... Outside of PB range, one demolished a fleet of 11 BCs/BBs/DNs quite handily.


=== BB Carthago! ===
* Standard kit, plus
* 4x Planetary Napalm
* 5x or so PDC
* 1 EAG, if memory serves
* LOTS of shielding and armor

Role --
Planetary bomber, of course. The Stalkers find the enemy systems, the Carthago! class bombers handle any planets too tough for the Stalker to destroy in one fight (e.g. if there are a lot of weapon platforms, etc).


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-- The thing that goes bump in the night

[This message has been edited by Taqwus (edited 13 January 2001).]

[imperishable]

I prefer at least 3 shields on my cruisers. I get better results in the simulator that way, and lose less ships in battles.

[Noble713]

quote:

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Originally posted by Blue Lord:
This so called "solid crusier" of you'rs seems moree like a support ship to you're missile ships. Would 1 of these cruiser's survive 2 hostile crusiers? I don't think this ship is independant enough.

---

These cruisers make up at least half of my navy, the rest an equal mix of Meson BLaster BBs/BCs (these actually have a single CSM V)and missile BB/DDs. The missile ships actually don't achieve much as I launch almost at max range, concentrate on just a few ships, and the Xi'Chung have a habit of backing up after they fire their Seeking Parasites. The cruisers inflict at least 2/3s of the casualties in every engagement.

I went into the simulator and pitted one Meson BLaster Cruiser against two of the following:

Xi'Chung Gorontalo II-class Cruiser
-Bridge, 2 Life Support, 2 Crew
-6 Ion Engine III
-2 Organic Armor III, 2 Shield Generator V
-2 Seeking Parasite V, 2 Lightning Ray III (Large Mount)
-1 Point Defense IV, Combat Sensors II, ECM III, Multiplex IV, Self-Destruct Device

In tactical combat, I can destroy both ships and still have half of my shields by dancing in and out of maximum range.

In strategic, its performance is less than stellar. Out of 40 simulated battles, it won 7 and lost the other 33.

It's effectiveness may also be based on my playing style. It may not be effective independently (not enough PD to fend off missiles/fighters, no missiles for stand-off planet bombardment), but I don't have single ships running around. I use big fleets largely composed of direct-fire CAs/BBs/BCs with missile BBs/DDs for backup and CLs for anti-missile escort. Auxiliaries include 1-3 CVs/CVLs, 1 Resupply Ship, 1-3 Repair Ships, and 1-2 Troop Transports.

Perhaps my original post should have said "A Solid Anti-Ship Cruiser Design".

It's also possible that my rampant success with this design has been due to the highly experienced 60-ship fleet that has been doing most of the fighting. After crushing 5+ Xi'Chung fleets (each 15-25 ships), it now has a 50% fleet bonus and a 20+% bonus for almost every ship (some from combat, some from Ship Training Facility).

quote:

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I'd be curious about what Organic Dreadnoughts you've been going against, considering that Organic isn't exactly lacking in nasty range-8 weapons.

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This is what I've been running into:

Xi'Chung Yungkia II-class Dreadnought
-Bridge, 3 Life Support, 3 Crew
-4 Ion Engine III
-5 Organic Armor III, 5 Phased Shield Generator V
-6 Lightning Ray III, 4 Seeking Parasite V
-1 Point Defense IV, Cloaking Device III, ECM III, Combat Sensors III, Multiplex Tracking V, Self-Destruct Device.


Their shields and armor make them hard to kill, but they almost never hit my ships and when they do the Lightning Rays don't do enough damage for it to matter.


[This message has been edited by Noble713 (edited 14 January 2001).]

[Blue Lord]

As my daddy said yesterday playing RA2:
"If they kill one of, the others will go too"
This thing is only effective in large bands in superior force. Most cruisers are that.

In the early demo there was solid cruisers, but not anymore. In v .19 I've found that all empire use different types of designs, wich means that a design that can take out 2 enemy cruisers of one race will die against 1 of another. Since I always operate in large bands I've had no need to design a special "Anti-Cue Cappa Cruiser" yet. My ships in general uses heavy shielding and in most cases, not all, they just blaze trough the enemy's line.

[Socialist]

they need to make Anti proton beams better
or something special..like an anti armour bonus..make it worth smaller damage.

anti armour would help make it acutally a useful one to look into..(the extra to using crystal for all its goodies..) would allow
going into that. there is little useful in using anti proton with the same weight cost
as pbb...

pbb good shield killer
make anti proton..anti armour breaking..




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Waves his Red flag

Socialist

[Socialist]

for cruiser designs..most everyone uses basics..

with humans as compeditors..i would utilize
the engine busters a bit more..cripple some fo fleet.with oen of those babies on board

slow them down and take them apart.


oh yes..i like to specialize ships against
missle lovers..and keep with the up and close

this allows defense in case of not always haveing superior numbers..cant expect to win
against humans if they have major advantage of numbers..but if you build them heavy shield and mid range damage dealers. make them pay with losses on the way in.

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Waves his Red flag

Socialist