Some new ability i just thought of....

[Atrocities]

In SMAC there were weapons that were considered "atrocities" if they were used, for example nerve gas and planet busters (nukes).

HEY NOW!

[Alari]

Not if your citizens don't know.

Maybe a Propaganda Facility with a negative Atrocity value would simulate this?

Oh, hi all, BTW. ^.^ I've been reading this board for ages and love SEIV(g). =) Bought the game quite a while ago and have been nothing but pleased with it.

[Phoenix-D]

"So you don't think anyone would be appalled by someone bombing billions of unarmed civillians to dust? Only if they use plague bombs, or split the planet in half? Seems to me the amount of mass civillian death is the main thing that will make civillians outraged..."

For certain races, sure. As capnq pointed out, they should have different definitions. It somehow doesn't make sense for the Rage Collective to look down on bLasting other race's civilians..

Phoenix-D

[Lemmy]

Originally posted by CW:
This abilities maybe useful when playing the AIs, but against human? Emm... who will care?

I'd say the SP side needs the most improving, especially diplomacy.

Originally posted by TerranC:
Not if your citizens don't know.

In germany, most germans had no idea of the mass concentration camps; even the ones that lived just nearby.

The point would that citrizens from other empires would know, including their government, making them not like you so much.

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
"So you don't think anyone would be appalled by someone bombing billions of unarmed civillians to dust? Only if they use plague bombs, or split the planet in half? Seems to me the amount of mass civillian death is the main thing that will make civillians outraged..."

For certain races, sure. As capnq pointed out, they should have different definitions. It somehow doesn't make sense for the Rage Collective to look down on bLasting other race's civilians..

Phoenix-D

yes, culture modifiers could be taken into account of how the race reacts to your "atrocities", since now they could also be a good thing, improving your relation with another madman's epmire...

[capnq]

So you don't think anyone would be appalled by someone bombing billions of unarmed civillians to dust?

To a Cryslonite, killing a billion organic-based lifeforms is just exterminating vermin, no worse than fumigating a house to get rid of roaches. The Sergetti and Xi'Chung have similar attitudes.

[PvK]

Agreed, there should be different definitions for different races, in a perfect game. The more options the better.

I was just trying to say that I'd think the _default_ for outrages would be based on quantities of civillians killed, rather than means of extermination.

And of course, it would have to be visible to the people getting mad, and this could apply both to diplomatic anger, and to population anger (or one but not the other, in some cases).

PvK

[dogscoff]

Different populations could get angry at all kinds of things: Destroying uninhabitted planets could be considered an environmental atrocity by some people, as could the use of terraforming facilities.

Also, the issue of how much a given population knows about current affairs in the galaxy raises huge questions about the whole "fog or war" thing in SEIV. If a neighbouring empire has a major planet glassed, don't you think news would find its way to me sooner or later? Refugees, traders, reporters, travellers etc would be bound to spread information regardless of political boundaries, but unless you have a partnership treaty or a ship in the vicinity there is no way to know.

Of course the reason for this is that it would be hideously complicated to code, because then you get into issues of how long it takes gossip to travel from system to system, whether or not news would filter out from events with no survivors, whether or not news would travel across war-zones or not, whether or not novae should be visible years later by normal-light travel etc etc etc etc...

BTW, welcome Alari. Lookin' kinda furry over there

[Gryphin]

My Ideas:
1) It would only work with AI's
2) It should be affected by Glassing planets accidentaly or otherwise
3) It should be affected by racial traits. Peaceful / Honerable should recive negative happyness.
4) The populace should not automaticaly find out. It is hard to hide the destruction of a city on your own planet even if done with conventional wepaons, (Siria about 15 years agao hearded most of its Kurdish pop into a city and destroyed it).
I think it would be harder to find out about a planet that was glassed 5 sytems away.
5) There might be a delay built in depending on how often and how far away it occurs

Most important: I would much rather time be spent on other aspects of the game.

Second: I find the timing of this thread interesting. Over the weekend I deliberatly glassed several AI planets. Till now I was personaly set against it but it truly came down to Us vs Them. I was not about to Them glass any more of my planets.

It was the United Flora and you might say I used a Herbicide and a Weedwacker. I went at those planets like a gardner after dandelions.