Mod: Conceptual Balance 1.21

[quantum_mechani]

You have a point that the servant of the oracles doesn't have a lot of use as is... a d/e random might even things out.

As for bone grinding, I must admit I hadn't anticipated that being a problem. One doesn't usually have that high of death mages lying about without a script, and I would have thought the very high fatigue would discourage AI use in any case. If it's a common problem though, I could certainly change it back.

[tombom]

I'm almost certain that you've covered this before - and I'm not questioning your decision, because you're far better than me at this game - but what was the reasoning behind removing sacred from all Niefelheim's recruitables?

[Sombre]

Here's the Niefelheim code.

--Niefelhiem EA

-Hurlers
#selectmonster 1305
#def 9
#end

-Niefel Giant
#selectmonster 845
#clearspec
#coldpower 1
#cold
#coldres 100
#fireres -50
#end

-Jotun Spearmen
#selectmonster 1303
#end

-Jotun Javelinist
#selectmonster 1304
#mor 13
#end

-Jotun Skin Shifters
#selectmonster 1310
#gcost 90
#end

-Jotun Herse
#selectmonster 1301
#gcost 50
#end


By using clearspec sacred and other abilities are removed. qm then puts cold immunity, fire weakness, coldpower and chill back,.. but the chill is 3 rather than 15, which is a huge difference. Also no sacred put back.

I'm not sure if this is intended or not. I doubt it is. I'd never realised how nerfed the niefels were in this cbm, anyway.

[HoneyBadger]

Niefels without sacred is like pizza without cheese. Toast, basically.

[quantum_mechani]

Removing sacredness is most certainly not intended. I did intend to lower the chill, and it's unfortunate that it is not possible to set custom chill levels.

[CUnknown]

Something I just noticed as I'm about to start a CB 1.21 game as MA Ulm -- the Piercer item was changed to requiring 1 level in earth only to forge.

Maybe I am alone in thinking this is unbalanced..

The Piercer was one of my favorite missile weapon items in base game.. with this change.. I mean.. wow!!! I am loving it as Ulm, but I sort of feel bad for those who will perish utterly under a rain of Piercer fire.

[quantum_mechani]

Well, I have yet to ever have something important die to a piercer (or any magic bow), but maybe I'm in the minority. Rest assured, if they start cropping up everywhere I'll take another look at them.

[CUnknown]

You are probably right that it won't make much of a difference for most races. But, you have removed the major barrier that prevented MA Ulm from mass producing them early on.

Now I will be able to mass produce them as soon as I get the research. Ulm will easily be able to get.. I dunno... 10-20 of them in their armies by turn 20-25. SCs and thugs without air shield will get shredded.

But maybe this is not such a bad thing. Ulm needed some help against SCs.

[quantum_mechani]

Yeah, maybe now they won't be so obligated to take a SC pretender of their own. And it would be fun if people actually bothered with air shield items on SCs.

[Twan]

I started to test CBM and had a big surprise (and critic) : how/why was it decided to boost more astral and death magic with a discount on mass enslave spells (master enslave and more arcane domination and undead mastery) ?

When other changes look good for me, reducing levels and costs of the most endgame spells of the best paths make IMO balance worse, especially when they are astral spells not supposed to be usable without some mages in a communion (and available so late that you can be sure the caster will have all penetration gear he can carry).

Even if the boost of master enslave looks small it may reduce by 4 or more the number of mages the weak astral nations need to use it (ie : to cast ME with as best astral mage one S4 -boosters counted- you need a 8 slaves communion + one mage casting light of the northern star in base game ; you just need 4 slaves + LNS with CBM ; if your best mage is S3, you need 8 slaves instead of 16, etc). And worse, it become easier for common mages of the nations powerful in astral to cast it out of communions (natural S5 with 2 boosters, S4 with 3, S3 with 3 + support from a mage casting light of the northern star) when in base game the same mages usually need a communion with 4 slaves, all needing to start with S3 and to be supported by a mage casting LoS to survive the fatigue.

The bigger discount on other mass enslave spells allow to chain cast them easily in a communion, making armies of magical beings or undeads more dangerous for their owner than for his ennemy in endgame (of course if the ennemy has astral or in the case of undeads, is a communion capable nation with death mages -it's a boost for Ermor and Utgard vs. non astral death nations).

Mass enslave spells are for me already overpowered in base game as they are in the spell category allowing round one victories in defense against big armies (if you can cast them with full penetration gear before the ennemy can cast antimagic he usually stands no chance to recover). Even at 8 gems ME is very cost effective compared to anything else and limit the armies usable against an astral power to forces of SCs and mages only. So I'd rather nerf all mass enslave more than boost them (S9/900 fatigue for ME, and lvl8/800 for the specialized mass enslave spells, would look better for me, making them not usable without a big communion or specialized pretender).

Now, I've not played a lot with CBM, so enslave boosts may compensate other changes (like more effects for summons which mostly concern non astral nations). But I think, due to the power of round one casting in defense, it would be generally better to avoid to make instant effects affecting the whole battlefield easier to cast or more powerful.

(As well, in the "round one battle winner" category, I think something should be done to reduce the efficiency of rain of stones (limiting the effects to 50% of the ennemies, making it avoidable with defense or air shield if doable, or increasing the cost/requirements a lot). Rain of stones (or worse RoSx2 or 3) cast in round one in defense essentially mean all ennemy 10hp / 0 protection mages will be dead if the ennemy hasn't spend about 10 gems to give a good armor or robe of shadows to each, when in endgame the defender can protect all his own casters with one fog warriors or army of something before the RoS.)