Conceptual Balance Mod 1.41

[Wrana]

I'd agree about a Frost Brand. I'm making it myself, but it still feels criminal. I'd say that 10 gems and possibly Water 2 requirement would be OK...

[Reay]

Yeah, I was wondering about that myself. One factor is the time saving for mages. Also, they do not require the secondary paths of magic for Ritual of Five Gates.

[Endoperez]

Saving time of Blood mages can (at least theoretically) be transformed into increased slave income. I believe 4 B2 mages hunting instead of casting wcouldn't have much trouble catching more than 13 slaves per turn.

[Jazzepi]

I've always thought the difference between fire brands and frost brands was fine. Ice resistance is usually the worst of the three since favored thugs are likely to be undead and thus already immune, and more deadly/common evocation magics are straight up fire damage then straight up cold damage.

Also, the firebrand loses 4 points of damage and 1 point of defense over the frost brand, but gains armor piercing which makes a difference against high level SCs which regularly will have 25-30 armor.

Jazzepi

[Dragar]

yeah, but fire brands are a lot tougher to make

I think dwarven hammers are worse than frost brands though, seriously how many players that survive a year or 2 in a game don't have at least 1 hammer? They are exceptionally powerful in how much they can save - a hammer probably saves on average at least 3 gems per turn, so is 3x+ better than a clam, which people generally agree make for overpowering stategies. Yet a hammer is so easy to obtain, single path of 2.

10% reduction in forge cost is probably a lot more reasonable. It can gain a 2x bonus against constructs as a thematic compensation

[chrispedersen]

On the one hand, increasing the cost of frost brands would nerf (slightly) Niefle. But generally water is already noncompetitive with death and astral...

[quantum_mechani]

In regards to the cheaper low level blood spells, it's possible they might displace some high level summons, but before this they were not getting used at all. Ritual of the five gates is still theoretically good for when you don't have the cross-paths for other things, and the level 9 summons for late game when you can get the cross paths but not on a lot of mages (and of course the level 9s and the five gates save mage time). It's hard to say how all that falls out in the end, before a few games have been played to late game with the current price scheme.

As for item nerfs, I certainly agree some are way overused. But making items harder to forge is the source of much confusion and frustration. Unlike with spells, it's not clear what is going on when they are more expensive or higher research level, you only see you can't forge them when before you could. I should also note there is no good way to change price without change path requirements. Much, as I would like to (and in fact have in earlier versions), I think item nerfs are mostly off the table

[Wrana]

Actually, hammers require an Earth 3. If you mean that AFTER you research the higher level of Construction you COULD make first Earth Boots and after that, Hammer, you may also argue that Wish requires Astral 5... :P
Bonus against constructs would be useless too.

[Jazzepi]

Could you take a second look at Fata Morgana? It costs 40 more gems than Gift of Nature's Bounty, and does almost nothing. It's like a terrible version of gift of nature's bounty, Riches from Beneath, and Mechanical Militia all rolled into one. The additional PD can't damage anything so it's only good when combined with a decent amount of regular PD. The income increase is miniscule (I cast it with a nation earning 1700 gold and went up to 1900 in a test game). The resource addition is noticable, but Riches does it much better and for a tiny fraction of the cost.

By the way, why does Mechanical Miliita still cost 80 gems?

Personally I think both of these spells should get some love. Make them cheaper, and buff the effects if you can. Maybe there's some way you can make the phantom PD better for Fata? Or raise the income boost?

Jazzepi

[chrispedersen]

Beckoning should be way cheaper as well.