Epic Heroes Mod MA game(finished)

[Xietor]

I will have 1.4 available for download shortly.

I am extremely sorry, we will have to restart again. And I thank everyone for their patience. But 1.4 contains many changes and tweaks, just a couple that are raised in this thread.

Since the purpose/goal of this game is to test for balance, i decided to make the change. I have already made all the changes, but i am going through each hero and his summons to make sure there are no mistakes.

I will not be playing pangaea upon reroll. After hearing, rightly or wrongly, that its hero is overpowered, and since 1.4 adds 100 percent pr and a 3rd misc slot, i did not want anyone to think i was taking an overpowered race.

Everyone is welcome to keep their original races. Vanheim and Ctis should be pleased with 1.4. Arcos. summoned elephants are now size 6, and their attack was lowered, but arcos is really not affected much, since they trample anyway.

Ulm gets a nerf. there is no way to sugar coat that. They only get 3 insanely tough guys instead of 4, and they have a tad more enc and 2 less defense.

But they are still the cream of the crop, even with the slight adjustment to their enc/def. It is the loss of the extra summoned troop that has the most effect.

Black phoenix has 3 misc slots now, and received 1 more fire(4).

Marignon got some armor.

Caelum had his makemonster increased to 2(winter wolves), but lost his stealth ability, and his yeti slam lost its aoe fear effect. Big nerf there on yeti, but the aoe fear attack stacked with his high natural fear was overpowered.

Tien chi got the changes the dr. asked for, but i decided not add back wings yet.

Man, agartha, machaka and the water races were completely unchanged.

[Xietor]

Everyone will need to download version 1.4 before we restart the game:

http://www.mediafire.com/?e99ud3xxhng

You can just delete the old version before you download the new. As before, you are free to change races/pretenders.

But the people have dibs on the races they already have obviously. And in the case of a change to a new race, the 1st person to post on this thread gets the new race.

I will have to talk to Llamabeast about setting up the game again. Let me know if there are any issues with the download-or your race with version 1.4.

By all means take a long look at your race before making any decisions. You cannot resend your pretenders until llama gets version 1.4 onto his server and gives the green light.

[Dragonninjaakira]

I'd like to stick with C'tis.

[Tuidjy]

The nerf to Ulm's soldiers may or not be enough. What bothers me is that you are
creating free summons that are comparable to Conj4 thugs equipped with Const4
items. I had devised a strategy for dealing with them, and yes, it did involve
poisoning them. It would have been a pointless endeavor though, because when
you are spending money on special purpose units to fight free summons, you are
losing the game.

I did not choose misfortune 3 because I was unaware of the consequences. I
thought I made that clear earlier.

Oh and for Pangaea's treant, you still do not get it. You keep talking about
a melee SC or defense. Once someone is capable of Soul Vortex, paralizis does
not matter. In one of my latest games, I was insanely lucky to roll a EDB
tartarian naga. The B is worthless, by the way. I gave her a charcoal shield,
an S cap, ring of regeneration and a ring of tamed lightning. She took on an
army of 20 astral/air mages and 400 assorted bowmen, but she managed to get
invulnerability and soul vortex off before she was paralized. After that, it was
all over. The chafe died easy, the (cross)bow guys ran out of arrows, got into
hand to hand, got broiled/drained and routed. But that was on turn 64 with a
VERY lucky magic roll. All Pangaea needs is Alt/Const 6... and once again, you
have created a creature that is grossly more powerful than unique conj 8 summons,
and which does not have the restrictions traditionally associated with treants.

As for making Pythium angel's 3a3f3h, yes, that would make her quite powerful.
Not powerful enough to deal with 18 free thugs on turn 8-9 though. I am tempted
to actually run your thugs against other nations' troops and see the results. If
I get 30 minutes, I will do it.

And you should call your Heroes mod a balance mod, so that people know what they
are getting into. You have admitted that you originally shafted Pythium and
Vanheim because you believed they were overpowered, and that you gave Ulm the
insane summons because you think it is underpowered. And hey, I agree about
Ulm and Vanheim, and may agree about Pythium after I try them in Dom III.
Not that I agree with the way you solved the issue, but it is your mod.

Still you need to tell people that. I expect most people to assume that heroes
are in similar power categories. This is absolutely not the case.

[Xietor]

Sorry for the misunderstanding, but if you read the mod forum under Epic heroes, it makes that fact crystal clear in the very first post.

I understand that it is a huge thread though, and i am not faulting anyone for not taking an hour to read the whole thing. But I do state the mod's intent early on.

While I have done very well in my multiplayer games, I know that better players than me exist-and maybe you are one of them. I certainly invite you to play overpowered pangaea, and show us why it is overpowered if you like playing that race.

I will wait until everyone else has selected a race, and maybe even play one of the "underpowered" ones like marignon or Pythium. But now that doubt has been cast on Pangaea, i will not be playing that race.

[Xietor]

I would be interested to see 18 of ulms fight 18 of mans summons if you get the opportunity.

Also, I do appreciate the input, it is only through challenge, discourse, and argument that the mod can be improved.

If everyone is politely silent, nothing will get changed. This upcoming game will be fun. Play any race that you think you will enjoy. There are some capable players in this game, as well as some newer players.

I designed all the heroes so that no race should be susceptible to a bum rush by Ulm or anyone else-if the players are equal in ability.

Out of curiousity, if the treant is so overpowered, why could the same result not be achieved with a titan pretender taking the same magic, and having all the slots to equip(treant has no hands, body, or feet).

[Tuidjy]

Oh, it is very much achievable :-) I do not remember the last time that I
played a pretender that did not have Water, Death and Nature and at least
one of Air or Earth :-) The problem is that it cost tons in scales. When
you receive the monster SC for free, you are allowed to get better scales
and let the pretender sleep a bit.

As for Man's summons, they are quite tough. But they are perfectly plausible
lore-wise. They have human stats, and well crafted equipment. Ulm's soldiers
have the stats of thugs and about 35 gems worth of equipment each.

---------

Results of testing. Ten times Ulm attacks, Man defends, no PD, Man gets to fire
twice before the squads are engaged. The commanders are on HOLDx5, stay behind.

10 battles, 10 victories for Ulm.
In six cases, no casualties for Ulm, full casualties for Man.
In two cases, no casualties for Ulm, three Man survivors.
In one case, one casualty for Ulm (lucky shot), no Man survivors.
In one case, Man got a lucky militia event. No casualties for Ulm, 59 dead Men.

The results speak for themselves. This was before the nerf. I'll test it
with v1.4 in a second...

---------------

With v1.4

casualties
4x 20 / 0
4x 20 / 1
1x 20 / 2
1x 19 / 1

What can I say? These guys have divine attack/defense/encumbrance.
Don't you think that you may want to nerf them a bit more, and buff the hero?

[Xietor]

Appreciate the feedback once again. I did actually expect Ulm would win, but I did expect Man to fare a tad better. Of course in a real showdown, even early, between Ulm and Man, Man would be bolstered by lighting casting mages, and Ulm by flying shards. Man would also have longbows, and i think they could dent even 21 protection.

And Beowulf is no slouch himself, though even your Treant likely would likely not survive 10 of Ulm's Black Order Soldiers. And to be quite frank, most prudent players would not risk an sc against Ulm's Black Order Soldiers unless their back was against the wall.

But I have done what i can for now, with respect to Ulm and other nations. If Ulm swallows the world in our game, then you will be proved correct. While i have yet to pick a race,
it is my belief that i can slow those babies down somehow!

[Xietor]

Please confirm that you are using the same race and pretender, or that you are going to send in a new pretender(no rush).

I just want to make sure everyone is on board with the restart.

If you are using the same race and pretender, you need do nothing except post that fact so llama can use your pretender he has on file.

My goal is to have the restart Monday Morning(earlier if everyone gets their confirmation or new picks sent in).

If you have a new pretender, you can mail it in. Llama emailed me to let me know he is aware of the restart and has reset the game.

[LoloMo]

I'll be using the same pretender as Agartha!