what about the future?

[Zeldor]

Dominions is an old niche game with ugly graphics. You can try convincing someone to it, but price tag is just stupid. Especially for digital copy.

It's not like there are any ads for dom [well, there are, but we all wish there weren't]. They have digital download, they can as well make it .torrent link and sell cd-key. Manual is on torrents too. So their costs here are around $0. All they need is to pay IW smth [but we can't know for sure what's the deal], and it's certainly is not $40+ per copy.

So it's all just down to IW that does not care about proper distribution [so they are a bit rude and arrogant towards clients/players] and Shrapnel, which has no idea about doing business or treating people [but it's so common in business, even huge companies like Dell or HP].

And I have bad feeling next IW's game will be released by Shrapnel too It'd be nice to never see them again.

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally Posted by Valerius

This is pure speculation of course and it's possible this wouldn't happen but think about various game franchises and how some installments of those franchises are viewed negatively. Perhaps because of changes in game mechanics, or UI, or the intangible "feel" of the game. I might be more surprised if a new version of Dominions by a different developer maintained the spirit of the game than if it didn't.

A marketing move would be to
A) simplify it for the masses
B) make it a Windows game which would automatically fix lots of ui complaints
C) make it 3D graphics and upgrade the sound

Malfador would be a good example. His low-graphics high strategy game of Space Empires IV on Shrapnel became a hi-res candied shelfware SEV thru Strategy First. And then became a stripped down FaceBook app game.

[Soyweiser]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

His low-graphics high strategy game of Space Empires IV on Shrapnel became a hi-res candied shelfware SEV thru Strategy First.

This actually made it a lot harder to play at my machine. Somehow the 3d-stuff gave me horrible frame rates, didn't work on my multi core machine etc. Eventually I just gave up...

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally Posted by Soyweiser

This actually made it a lot harder to play at my machine. Somehow the 3d-stuff gave me horrible frame rates, didn't work on my multi core machine etc. Eventually I just gave up...

I wasnt thrilled either. The game ended up in sales bins, and the modding community never did catch up to what SEIV had. I own it but I still play SEIV and have deleted SEV from my machines.

It was also rather a setup. Malfador is beta testing his next game called World Supremacy and will be offering it thru Shrapnel Games Inc

[Squirrelloid]

I'm not sure why everyone is so convinced a game like dom3 needs to be a niche game. Admittedly, it doesn't follow the *current* trends in *computer* games (which seems to be going more and more in the overly clicky direction) - although the Civ series remains tremendously successful and arguably Dom3 is, like MoM, Civ-with-magic.

But it also appeals to other types of gamers (such as Warhammer players or Avalon Hill boardgame players). Surely many of these people own computers and might even be tempted to play a computer game that appeals to their style of gameplay.

If dom3 got half the advertising Civ IV had gotten, it could have been a big hit. Ok, it would probably have wanted to actually rework the base code and improve the AI for that kind of advertising effort. But still, turn-based strategy is hardly a dead genre, or even an unpopular one. There's nothing niche about it.

And in a world where Lord of the Rings had 3 blockbuster movies, Harry Potter is looking to go the distance with all 7 (?) books as movies, and who knows how many other major fantasy motion pictures coming out, to pretend that the game being fantasy would limit its appeal is ridiculous. One of the most popular Civ IV mods was a fantasy mod (FfH2).

So why is this necessarily a niche game?

[13lackGu4rd]

it is a niche game simply because it is created by a very niche company: Illwinter, and published by another niche company: Shrapnel. if Dominions3 was created and published by a large company such as Sid Meier's(Civilization series), EA(well, you all know them...), Blizzard, Westwood Studios(C&C series, Red Alert, etc), etc than Dominions3 wouldn't have been a niche game.

[Soyweiser]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

So why is this necessarily a niche game?

Why is it niche?

- Turn based strategy is niche. Very hard to get a AAA publisher for. (Yeah, I know it is a circle definition, it is niche because the big boys say it is niche). There are very few exceptions, civilization, and some handheld tbs games. And only civ has some depth.
- It has a humongous learning curve. As almost all tbs games have. This makes it hard to pick up and play. Which makes it niche.
- Comparing it to Civ isn't totally fair. Civ is the exception to the rule. You should compare it to other AAA tbs games. Ow wait... these don't really exist... why would that be?
- Would the 14 year old the current halo/gears of war crowd play Dom3? Or women? Would your mom play it? For most of these it would be No. So that makes it kinda niche.

Nobody said that fantasy made it a niche game. I think it is the other way around.

And Warhammer and Avalon hill games are also niche. They appeal to a very specific set of people. And this group isn't that large you know.

Just compare tbs games with depth to adventure games. Both have great potential. But remain niche.

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

If dom3 got half the advertising Civ IV had gotten ...

And if the GUI had been fixed, the graphics polished, the micro fixed, the AI better, A single player campaign included etc...

13lackGu4rd, if a AAA publisher would have developed the game they would have thrown a lot of the depth of the game out of it. They are looking to reach a max amount of players. (So the game is less 'nichey'). So sure, it wouldn't be a niche game if it was developed by Blizzard for example. But it also wouldn't be Dom3.

But I agree, it is niche because it has a niche developer. But that is what makes Dom3, Dom3.

Edit: Just fyi, but I think hardcore gamers have become a niche.

[Soyweiser]

More reasons:

- It is 'Original' fantasy. No easily recognizable fantasy stereotypes. (Such as elves, dwarves, orcs etc).
- You don't fight your own battles, you just give orders.

[Doo]

Its niche because it comes with a sticker on the box...

Warning: Contains Serious Micromanagement

Brain requirements:

If you go to the shops and forget what you intended to buy, purchase a chocolate bar and upon returning home remember what you were supposed to get, then it is advised not to play. Upgrade your cerebellum first.

[Gregstrom]

Originally Posted by Doo

If you go to the shops and forget what you intended to buy, purchase a chocolate bar and upon returning home remember what you were supposed to get, then it is advised not to play. Upgrade your cerebellum first.

I'm just off to bin my CD. See you guys later.