[OT] Another heated discussion about the Iraq siutation, war and politics.

[Narrew]

Originally posted by Aloofi:
Well, I'm not saying the whole US is racist, but all the outspoken patriots I know or I have seen are conservatives extremists

Funny, I hear the so-called Liberals (here in the USA) say the same thing. Most of them are nay sayers and Bush haters ie good ole politics. I can bet you that if Clinton or some other Democrat did what GW did, they would sing a different tune. I never thought Patriotism had a specific gender/race requirement, nor political one.

anti immigrants bordering in racism and anti-Semitism.

Umm, I am white and consider myself a conservative. I can tell you that I do not harbor racist/Semitic thoughts. To use a label again, as I look at what the so called liberals say, I consider them more of a threat to racism than what they accuse us conservative extremists of.

Of course, the ones that know me don't tell me that to my face, but as a white jew I pass very easily as white non jewish, so I happen to hear more than I'm expected to.

What is it that you are or are not expected to hear? Is it what you want to hear? The reason I ask, is when I read what you wrote I asked myself, when was the Last time I heard a racist/anti Semitic comment, and frankly I don't remember one, that is just between my friends and the folks I go to school with. I am not saying that it don't happen, and I am not talking about the talking heads on TV (it is to easy to find any view point you want on satellite) I am just saying what "I" see in normal America. What I am saying is, I do not think to myself before I open my mouth, "Hey self, you think that white guy is a jew?". Actually I just open my mouth and insert both feet, but I say what I feel *shrug*.

Also, I have no understanding of the plight in Israel. Watching the bombing that happened the other night is very foreign to me. As long as there are religious fanatics willing to blow themselves up for their god, I have no idea what can be done to help fix the situation. I truly hope that the Iraq situation is a step in the right direction. To get the countries in the Middle East to question their involvement with Hamas (and other terrorist orgs). It is a HUGE process and I hope that the USA helps Israel the best that we can.

[ May 02, 2003, 02:59: Message edited by: Narrew ]

[Aloofi]

Article:

"Mike’s Place, Tel Aviv Bombed"

April 30, 2003

At 1 a.m. April 30th in Tel Aviv a homicide bomber blew himself up at Mike’s Place, murdering 3 and maiming at least 49, 8 seriously. Mike’s Place is next door to the American Embassy - I wonder if President Bush got the message? This is the 89th suicide bombing since the Arab Palestinian Terrorists began the September 29, 2000 Rosh HaShanah War.

The heroism of a security guard at the entrance, like the one at the Kfar Saba train station on Thursday April 24th, saw the Terrorist, engaged him in a strong verbal exchange, asked for his ID but effectively pre-empted from entering the pub who then blew himself up at the entrance and not inside the pub. Mike’s Place was filled to the brim and an explosion would have caused dozens of killed and injured.

No doubt, on cue, we will hear from Bush-Powell-Peres burbling as always: "These killings will not stop the "Peace Process’". The BBC, always an anti-Jewish pro-Terrorist new organizations, has reported that the Homicide was merely an expression of Palestinian pain and frustration.

In the days to come we will hear President Bush condemn the bombing and then say that this is the reason that his political jingle called "The Road Map" must be followed.

The U.S. State Department will roll out its propaganda machine to fudge over the killing and boost Abu Mazen just hours after he was voted in as the new Prime Minister of the Palestinian Authority. As a PM with little power, he will be celebrated for his potential while Arafat continues to hold the reins of power.

Even as I write this, the White House, as I predicted, has "condemned the Homicide Bombing and further states that it will not impede the "Road Map".

We have yet to hear from Israel’s Prime Minister Sharon and see if he obediently follows the usual Peres expression: "This shall not stop the Piss Process."

We await the Left Liberal Media take on the clear statement by Hamas or Islamic Jihad that they will continue the bombing until Israel is gone. We await the NEW YORK TIMES, CNN, CHICAGO TRIBUNE, NPR (NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO), among others, to start vomiting out rationale as damage control to protect the Arab Palestinians and their Terrorist cronies.

Not to worry - just wait for the Wave of Propaganda to wash over you explaining how Terrorists are merely frustrated militants and how we are not ‘really’ at war with Islam and hostile Muslims. "

[Fyron]

The BBC, always an anti-Jewish pro-Terrorist new organizations

So there are no Israeli terrorists? Hah!

[ May 03, 2003, 00:40: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[dogscoff]

The BBC, always an anti-Jewish pro-Terrorist new organizations

I take objection to this. There is a world of difference between reporting the palestinian side of the conflict (they give equal airtime to the israeli side) and being "anti-jewish". Even if they were anti-israeli (and they're not) they would not be "anti-jewish", since there are plenty of jews not living is Israel.

By deliberately blurring the boundaries between nation and religion, that article attempts to stir up racial hatred by simplifying the issue. By portraying even neutral outsiders like the BBC as hostile "pro-terrorist" organisations, they strengthen the "them and us" mentality that prolongs the conflict.

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by dogscoff:
I take objection to this. There is a world of difference between reporting the palestinian side of the conflict (they give equal airtime to the israeli side) and being "anti-jewish". Even if they were anti-israeli (and they're not) they would not be "anti-jewish", since there are plenty of jews not living is Israel.

By deliberately blurring the boundaries between nation and religion, that article attempts to stir up racial hatred by simplifying the issue. By portraying even neutral outsiders like the BBC as hostile "pro-terrorist" organisations, they strengthen the "them and us" mentality that prolongs the conflict.

Oh well, I agree that is not the same to be anti-jewish and being anti-Israeli. The thing is that most people out there are either anti-jewish (the right) or anti-Israeli (the left).
Then there are some Christian fundamentalists that support Israel because Israel is an important piece of their "End of the world" scheme, so their support is anything but out of kindness.
In the end the Israeli Fundamentalist Groups, and they are just a few when compared to the Palestinian Fundamentalist organizations, are trying to play the "them against us" card in an intent to bust their numbers.
Israeli Fundamentalism have been slightly on the raise since September 2000 when the Palestinian launched their 2nd Intifadah, thus proving that Rabin and the Dovish gang were wrong granting the Palestinian authority without any commitment to a permanent peace.
You have to understand that during the 1st Intifada the Palestininas were throwing rocks at us, but now they are throwing the Kassam II and III rockets, home made mortars and suicide bombers. What have changed between the 2 Intifadas? What have gave them this capability?
Rabin's Palestinian Authority.

[Fyron]

Umm... no Aloofi, most people are not like that. And it has nothing to do with being on the "left" or on the "right".

[Cyrien]

A little humor to throw fire on the fuel.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/presaddress2.shtml

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by Cyrien:
A little humor to throw fire on the fuel.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/presaddress2.shtml

Ok, I don't have audio. What is he saying? What's suppose to be funny?

[metro637]

Aloofi what is your position.
Do you think there should be a Palestinian state that recognizes Israel?
Do you think that the Palestinians have no right to self government?
Do you think that Israel is justified in its treatment of the Palestinians?
Do you think that the Suicide Bombing is wrong but tanks are okay?
What is your solution to the problem?

[geoschmo]

Salaam Pax made it through the war alive fortunatly. He has updated his blog.

http://www.dear_raed.blogspot.com/

Geoschmo