[OT] Another heated discussion about the Iraq siutation, war and politics.

[teal]

Ok to restate my point of view (and I am restating because there seems to be some misconception about what I said, apparently my post was too long to read...

Most of the people jumping in and taking me to task are taking me to task for the wrong reason. They say that create was, strictly speaking, the wrong word to use in this context. They are correct. As I have stated before my interpretation of this comment is that it is on the same level as Bush's waving at Stevie Wonder. That is that some people, if predisposed to do so, can reasonably slam the actor and say that they acted like an idiot. But I also maintain that reasonable people can see *nothing* wrong with what the actor did and not see any reason to slam them at all.

So please, before you see fit to think me an idiot for thinking that the word create can not mean "to bring something into existence which did not exist before" realize that is not my position. I maintain that create can mean that *and* it can also mean "to improve or make better something which did exist before". Strictly speaking this is gramatically incorrect, but I have strong problems with "grammer Nazi's" and you should to It is still natural language and people can and do use the word this way. I have already posted one example which was not refuted and here's another:

If someone goes out and looks at their backyard treehous and thinks (boy that could use a new wing and a kitchenette) and then goes and adds a new wing and a kitchenette then they could using natural language say that they created a treehouse. They would be gramatically incorrect in doing so, but we should not pretend that we did not know what they meant and that they were an idiot for saying so.

Teal, who knows he should not write anything longer than a paragraph on a forum, but does so anyways because he can't help but think in paragraphs...

[teal]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Tbontob, a rant in the forum sense of the word is exactly what Teal's post was. There are many words that have more meanings than a dictionary has in them, especially when it comes to popular culture (such as the internet). Rant is one such word, which can mean a lot more than your basic dictionary definition.

Does anyone but me find this post *extremely* ironic?

[tbontob]

QUOTE]Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Tbontob, a rant in the forum sense of the word is exactly what Teal's post was. There are many words that have more meanings than a dictionary has in them, especially when it comes to popular culture (such as the internet). Rant is one such word, which can mean a lot more than your basic dictionary definition.[/quote]

No Fyron, the internet is not a popular culture. The people on the internet have many diverse interests, hobbies, philosophies and concerns.

More importantly, their home language may not be English and as a consequence they may not be very familiar with English.

Maybe, rant has a secondary meaning in California.

Or maybe you have just made up that meaning to suit your own purposes.

These meanings are not likely to be known to those who whose first language is not English.

And to use it in such a manner is very disrespectful.

[Baron Munchausen]

Originally posted by teal:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Tbontob, a rant in the forum sense of the word is exactly what Teal's post was. There are many words that have more meanings than a dictionary has in them, especially when it comes to popular culture (such as the internet). Rant is one such word, which can mean a lot more than your basic dictionary definition.

Does anyone but me find this post *extremely* ironic?

---

You forgot to also quote the one where he accuses people who try to accord Gore the same leeway of hypocrisy. This is beyond 'ironic' it's Fyronic.

[tbontob]

LOL

New definition for Websters New Collegiate Dictionary.

Fyronic n (2003): beyond ironic.

ROFLOL

[Fyron]

Tbontob, I made up nothing about the word rant. It is a very commonly used term on internet forums, known by many people who are not from California and who do not speak English as a native tongue. Just because you do not know what it means does not mean that noone else does.

[Aloofi]

Well, I don't wanna be on Fyron's side here , but I have seen the word rant used Online to describe anything that its said twice.
Very fyronic indeed....

[Rigelian]

I'm with Fyron there too. Unlike a lot of internet language, such as 'flame' or 'troll' for example, the intended meaning can be derived from its dictionary definition; the sense is not quite as strong though.

In general, 'internet language' is considered acceptable in forums, whether the poster is from California or not . And although a lot of the original terminology might have been consistent with Californian English for historical reasons, I think that recently a lot of 'European texting conventions' have made their way onto the general internet. PITA for anyone under 20 though..

[Rigelian]

...but actually looking back at the original Posts (damn this thread is long!), I don't think what was said qualified as a 'rant' in either the dictionary or 'internet' senses...

A long argument making many points is just that, surely? Even if you disagree with it - to use the term 'rant' is perjorative, in either sense.

For what it's worth, my personal take on 'netiquette' would be:

- avoid use of colloquial English. This does not mean using a restricted vocabulary. If I use an uncommon but correct term, it can be looked up in the dictionary, whereas colloquial/slang terms usually can not.
- only correct grammatical mistakes when the poster has previously criticised someone elses - then they are a fair target
- if replying to someone who does not have English as a first language, only correct them if their meaning is unclear or if they specifically ask. To do otherwise is plain rude, given that their English is usually far better than my command of their language.
- definitely avoid pointless US-versus-British English flame wars. Two valid derivatives of Elizabethan English I say... but doubtless confusing for the non-native speaker.

[Fyron]

I said it was a rant because it was essentially a rehashing of what he said before, and it was an attempt to overwhelm my point with potentially (though not necessarily) true statements that did not actually contradict the point.

[ June 02, 2003, 19:13: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]