(Shocking) News!!!!!

[Tim Brooks]

StrategiaInUltima said:
Moreover, there has been just about no marketing at all for SE.

Really. Where did you get this information? I would like to know why you "think" this?

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

Apart from SEIV/Shrapnel sites, I have seen NO marketing AT ALL for the game. No ads, banners, whatever.

OK, so I may be wrong, but at least SE has received less makretingn than MOO, and MOO is more of a mainstream game.

[Azselendor]

Aside from reviews and the banners of Shrapnel-aligned websites, I haven't seen ads for it.

But with this latest revelation about Strategy First.. One word comes to mind:

Enron

It actually reminds me to the dot com bubble burst too. I had a huge number of friends who had a 3rd party handle advertising on their site and paid them for those banner placements and then refused to pay the fees to the web master citing bankruptcy. Nearly all of them are website-less now or struggling.


As for GalCiv2, The reviews I saw of that game and the screenshots provided in those reviews are two seperate things. I felt like I was listening to a bible thumper in the reviews. I would give a game more serious consideration if it had a harsher, more realistic review. Hell, if I could I would give them. I'm yet to see a copy of GalCiv outside a last-chance, dent'n'bend bargin bin I'm also yet to see more than one copy of the game at the same time in the same store.

This is the only time I'm glad bush's new bankruptcy law will prevent a company from escaping its debts.

And God, Satan, and Dick Cheney forbid that SFI Screws MM, and they'll be hell for them to pay from all of us.

[tesco samoa]

Klvino... Strategy First is in Montreal.

So that law carries no weight

[Richard]

StrategiaInUltima said:
Apart from SEIV/Shrapnel sites, I have seen NO marketing AT ALL for the game. No ads, banners, whatever.

OK, so I may be wrong, but at least SE has received less makretingn than MOO, and MOO is more of a mainstream game.

We have done a ton of marketing for SE:IV but over time you spend less marketing effort on a 4+ year old game. Just because folks spend a lot of money on advertising doesn't mean it's smart. We have run ads in the major gaming magazines before but have found them to have little impac on sales. We ran banners for SE:IV for years on most of the major gaming sites, that is until the ROI on banner ads went through the floor.

We have also used a lot of non traditional methods to market SE:IV and all of our games. I won't go into all of them because they are trade secrets

[David E. Gervais]

David takes out his 'SFI rumor-mill gossip coin' and flips it,.. "WTH? Tails again! I'm getting tired of seeing only one side of the 'coin'"

I sure wish SFI would spill the beans and let the public know what their side of the story is,.. I find it strange that they go through serious finacial trouble (mainly due to in-house development and 'government contracts' forcing them to 'Create-new-jobs' in order to stay in business), and just when things are looking bright an 'outside developer' (who shall remain nameless in order not to spread bad news or tarnish their reputation) milks SFI for over $800,000 and that consequences of that saw 108 people loose their jobs and a number of 'other' developers saw their royalties seemingly go up in smoke. I understand their frustration, but there is absolutely no evidence that SFI is not trying to 'make-good' on those contracts. There has been no 'bankruptcy' declared or contracts deemed null and void. SFI filed for 'Bankruptcy-protection' which means that they have the chance to do everything in their power to make things right. getting rid of the in-house development (cash monkey) has greatly improved SFI's financial standing, in december they started showing a positive cash flow, it may not be enough to pay off 'ALL' their debts, but it is a step in the right direction.

Here's a scenario,.. in 3-4 months when things are going good and SFI manages to 'make-good' on their old contracts will those developers that are currently fueling 'negative press' be able to go back in time and say oops? Nope, and what is worse, never getting paid or being paid late. I think that if SFI was the 'Bad Company' that everyone makes it out to be they could have thrown in the towel long ago (when they were actually showing 'millions' of dollars in profit) and taken the money and ran. the fact that they are doing everything in their power to 'make-good' on their contracts says alot about integrty. The fact that they have also refused to enter the 'character-assination' game and bad mouth the people responsible for their financial woes is another sign of integrity.

Yes they have had extreme financial difficulties, but that was not by design or any mallicious intent. Stardock is as much a victim as SFI, so are many other fine developers. SFI is doing everything in it's power to turn things around and I for one believe they will succeed. One sign that they are succeedign at turning things around is this news..

Silverstar to Aquire SFI

This is not bad news, this is good news, it will help the company by opening up new avenues an in turn make future expansion into new markets available.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm really sick if hearing one side of the coin. and everything I said here is only a tiny part of the 'flip-side' I'm not in a position to know all the details, but what I know goes a long way to explaining why I'm optimistic about the future of SE5.

Nuf said,..

Cheers!

EDIT: this is not in response to Richard's post but to the negative press that has been spilled throughout this thread.

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

I really had no idea that another company squeezed $800k out of S1st..... my apologies to the company. Here's hoping SEV will generate enough money for them to release more games so that they can pay off their debts.

[Tim Brooks]

Joint_Chief_StrategiaInUltima said:
Apart from SEIV/Shrapnel sites, I have seen NO marketing AT ALL for the game. No ads, banners, whatever.

Wow! That's amazing, and proves the point doesn't it. If we spent tens of thousands on those things and you didn't see them, then how effective are they?

Mainstream games that do well at retail have to be advertised differently than niche products -- even niche products at retail must be advertised differently. A publisher who pays $18,000 for a full page ad in CGW, to reach (based on CGW's stats) less than 15,000 people who are actally interested in the game, well they are just setting themselves up for bankruptcy, er disappoinment.

The reality is, I would bet that those that read CGW and are interested in a niche game with art budgets in the $ thousands (not $ millions!), difficult interface, and micromanagement features are way less than 15,000 people.

As for banner ads, well, they just don't work anymore. They haven't for over 4 years now. When we first started in 1999, we could advertise by banners, pay $200 - $500 for 300,000 impressions and get a click thru rate of 7.5% (that brought us about 22,000 clicks which turns into about 330 sales). Now the sites worth advertising on want $8,000 for those 300,000 impressions and the click thru rates are under .5% (that brings us less than 1500 clicks which turns into about 23 sales). So yea, lets do that!

We do alot of marketing, in non-tradtional ways, that get us the returns for our investments. How did you hear about SEIV? I know we have run polls before asking this question, and the top answer is word of mouth (a friend told me, I saw it in a forum or user group discussion, my friend at work was playing it, etc.). One of the hardest things we have to contend with regarding developers is to explain that word of mouth just doesn't happen. Someone just didn't wake up one morning and go, "I have a giant urge to go discuss Space Empires IV - I've never heard of it before, don't even know what it is, but hey, I'll just go talk about it." They talk about it because they FOUND out about it. And that just doesn't happen. That is marketing that gets games to that point.

We don't discuss the many ways we market, because our competition isn't there - you won't find SF there - and we don't want then there. Hell, we want our competition paying $18,000 for ads that don't reach their market.

[NullAshton]

I think I discovered SE when searching for free games. Looked at it, decided to try it, liked it but didn't want to buy it because it was shareware. Then space empires 4 came, and I got it!

[Baron Munchausen]

Klvino [ORB] said:
Aside from reviews and the banners of Shrapnel-aligned websites, I haven't seen ads for it.

But with this latest revelation about Strategy First.. One word comes to mind:

Enron

It actually reminds me to the dot com bubble burst too. I had a huge number of friends who had a 3rd party handle advertising on their site and paid them for those banner placements and then refused to pay the fees to the web master citing bankruptcy. Nearly all of them are website-less now or struggling.


As for GalCiv2, The reviews I saw of that game and the screenshots provided in those reviews are two seperate things. I felt like I was listening to a bible thumper in the reviews. I would give a game more serious consideration if it had a harsher, more realistic review. Hell, if I could I would give them. I'm yet to see a copy of GalCiv outside a last-chance, dent'n'bend bargin bin I'm also yet to see more than one copy of the game at the same time in the same store.

This is the only time I'm glad bush's new bankruptcy law will prevent a company from escaping its debts.

And God, Satan, and Dick Cheney forbid that SFI Screws MM, and they'll be hell for them to pay from all of us.

Enron is a recent example on a larger scale, but Strategy 1st being a gaming company it reminds me of the shenanigans around TSR when Dungeons & Dragons was the 'Next Big Thing'. He was screwed right & left by people who wanted to live the 'corporate lifestyle' just like those dot-con guys a couple decades later. His wife was actually bargaining with 'her half' of his shares in the company behind his back while their divorce was in progress. Gygax own website seems to be down or inaccessible, but here are some other accounts I've managed to find:

http://www.atlasofadventure.com/Archive/gygaxfaq.asp

http://www.rubycovenant.com.au/viewt...?t=830&start=0

I imagine that something very similar going on at Strategy 1st could produce just those 'impossible' results of non-payment to developers and bankruptcy at the same time. All the money would be going into limousines, 'expense accounts' for free travel around the world, salaried 'jobs' for relatives who never show up to work, and etc. just like happened at TSR. This is not looking good for MM.