Ukraine 2021(?)

[Suhiir]

According to recent news there have been a number of Russian vehicles captured in "pristine" (for used vehicles) condition as some Russian units are abandoning significant quantities of vehicles (presumably due to limited fuel availability).

[DRG]

If this is happening widespread it is significant. Localized not so much

[lukerduker123]

Just a reminder, if it isn't already implemented, that the heavy use od mines in Ukraine means it might be best if they're taken off the Ottawa convention list.

[Suhiir]

I found this interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_7ykSuCWK8

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

I found this interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_7ykSuCWK8

Yep.

This was "supposed" to be over quickly. Guessing Putin was assured 2-3 weeks tops.... again speculation but guessing it was supposed to be all done and dusted around the time they pulled back from Bucha which was the end of March

[DRG]

Originally Posted by lukerduker123

Just a reminder, if it isn't already implemented, that the heavy use of mines in Ukraine means it might be best if they're taken off the Ottawa convention list.

Just because there is "heavy use of mines in Ukraine" does NOT mean Ukraine is using them

The Ottawa treaty was a "wonderful" virtue signalling idea for nations that knew they would never be put into a situation where they would need to lay mines for defence.

The rest quietly put them into storage or at least keep all the machinery needed to make them well-maintained in storage

THAT SAID I can find LOTS of reports that Russia is using them ( but they didn't sign )...

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/09/15...ne-land-mines/
https://www.wired.com/story/russian-...gical-warfare/

...... but I have not read anything about their being used BY Ukraine but that doesn't mean anything ,,, the info that they are could be suppressed... or the info could be coming from Russia which means nothing much really..... it's easy to say the other side is doing exactly what you are doing to justify what you are doing.... so what sources do you have that support this ???

[MarkSheppard]

Human Rights Watch has accused Ukraine of using rocket delivered FASCAM AP mines.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/01/31/...harm-civilians

In 2021, Ukraine reported to the UN secretary-general that 3.3 million stockpiled PFM mines still need to be destroyed. According to Ukrainian officials, the only type of antipersonnel mines remaining in Ukraine’s stockpiles are PFM mines contained in 9M27K3 220mm rockets.

[DRG]

And the critical word there is "accused". Human Rights Watch go on to say the Ukraine military " appear to have" used them

It's established fact that Russia is using them but Russia didn't sign the treaty

It's also interesting that all the mines are Russian in Origin but given the past connection between Ukraine and Russia that's not a surprise

The really important point is this is a GAME forum and in this GAME Ukraine cannot place mines in 2022-2023. If THE GAME was allowing that then there would be an issue. The game does not so maybe this need to be taken up in the Human Rights Watch forum but I am NOT going to restore Ukraines ability to place mines based on accusations originating with the Russians who are known to use mines

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by DRG

The Ottawa treaty was a "wonderful" virtue signalling idea for nations that knew they would never be put into a situation where they would need to lay mines for defence.

The rest quietly put them into storage or at least keep all the machinery needed to make them well-maintained in storage

At least Biden's recent virtue signaling said the US would continue to use mines in Korea.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

POTUS's virtue has gone above and beyond then because we are sending Taiwan the VOLCANO battlefield mining system.

We didn't sign all parts of the OTTAWA Treaty, and this is an example of how we got around it (As we do have the anti-personnel canisters for ourselves.) on the non-proliferation issue by NOT sending Taiwan the anti-personal canisters we'll instead we'll be sending them ONLY the anti-tank ones. Which fulfills our obligations. You can read the rest for yourselves.
https://www.popsci.com/technology/us...enser-systems/
https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/tai.../17/2003792745

So, with that in mind, we could send the same system to the Ukraine, and nobody would be offended or bothered. Russia used them to open the Campaign and they were dropping anti-personnel as well.

There is a "tingling sensation" on the web that they may try to slip it into the most recent $2+ Billion-dollar aid package.

All I'm saying there are loopholes and we're exploiting them on the "non-proliferation" side. I would not be surprised if we send them there by Spring or early Summer. Don't kind yourselves if we're doing for Taiwan (And pissing China for it.) Ukraine isn't a reach either.

Whether you like "Uncle Joe" or not and I don't care either way, he's done more than the last two Presidents combined to get weapons to the Ukraine and align NATO plus the same can be said about Taiwan going even further back. For China systems like VOLCANO, F-16V and ABRAMS were "Redlines" WELL we've made them,
"GREENLINES"

You have to remember he had 40 years in the Senate through the Cold War and beyond. In Putin he sees Stalin and the Soviet Union, with Xi Ping it's Mao and Communist China. and he's "spitting in their eyes" right now.

Just food for thought in a neutral biased way.

Regards,
Pat