Omaha Beach - Scen #9

[dTerm]

Originally Posted by DRG

If anyone sees a building disapear check the registration hex ( typically the upper left hex of the series it had been in ) BEFORE it is saved and let me know if hovering the cursor over that hex shows it to be rough and after you save and restart does it show "paved"

The theory I am exploring now is if the registration hex is turned to rough that is when the building disappears.

After saving and restarting the building will be restored but report the hex under the registration hex is Paved

I again ran the Vanish game from earlier and observed the following:

Before any of the triggering bombardment all the registration hex report 'clear'.

After it, but before saving, the reg hex of the disappearing building reports 'rough'.

After loading the saved game, the hex reports as 'paved road'.

If I understood you correctly, that's what you are looking for.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by dTerm

If I understood you correctly, that's what you are looking for.

That is what I observed as well but I belive when this happens it is a "false rough" which is why the building disappears and why it reapears when you load the save as a multi hex building cannot exist on a rough hex

If you build a map with a large rough area when you put the building down on the rough and check the registration hex you will find it reports being paved. I think this is part of the problem as I belive it should be clearing down to clear terrain not paved but when it is hit hard with arty and it is given a rough classification that is when the buildings go away and a save and restart then shows that rough hex as paved just as it would if you were building a map with multi hex buildings over rough

SOMEWHERE in that is the key but with this we may have found the lock the key fits into

I think too that is why some old maps that have had terrain put down and re-done a few times leave invisible roads that are only detected when you run the cursor over them or you notice your unit moves further than you think it should

I also think this is an O L D issue

[Karagin]

Is this similar to the issue I brought up where the building with drop road tiles around larger ones? I mentioned last year in MBT. I saw it a couple of times in WW2.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Karagin

Is this similar to the issue I brought up where the building with drop road tiles around larger ones? I mentioned last year in MBT. I saw it a couple of times in WW2.

It is possible they are related in some way. I have found road hexes just to the left or right of a multi, but some of that is how a rectangular building fits into a Hex grid.

I have not found any above or below a multi

EDIT

NOTE: if you place multis on clear terrain there is no paved round underlay that I have ever found. You get that when you put on over rough terrain so *GOOD PRACTICE* when placing multi hex buildings in a custom map or scenario would be to make sure that there is NO ROUGH terrain anywhere near the building which means hit the area you want the entire building to sit with something like grass or sand or even tall grass and then put the building down..... grey sand is good to represent gravel

[DRG]

For the disappearance of multi hex building I belive it is safe to say it is directly the result of the underlying terrain of a multi hex buildings registration hex (normally the top left ) being temporarily turned into rough terrain but it can be a gold plated B!TCH to get it to convert one sometimes with this as proof



I hammered that over and over and could not get the building to disappear

BUT... I could not find a hex showing "rough" anywhere and the test was to see if rough could be created anywhere BUT under a multi registration hex

[Karagin]

When I have seen building do the vanishing trick, it's normally in a large urban area, the Battle for Rome scenario is one that I have seen in, I think it was that, need to check again, but it cost me a vehicle when I went cool clear terrain and found out other wise as drove into the wrong hex without paying attention to things.

[DRG]

....another little tidbit of info

• A multi hex building placed on rough will automagically change that rough to paved road
• A Multi placed on clear terrain will not BUT..... if you beat it up with arty and create rough in that hex once the game is saved and reloaded the game will convert that rough to paved road

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Karagin

When I have seen building do the vanishing trick, it's normally in a large urban area, the Battle for Rome scenario is one that I have seen in, I think it was that, need to check again, but it cost me a vehicle when I went cool clear terrain and found out other wise as drove into the wrong hex without paying attention to things.

So the temporary solution is IF you are in an urban environment with large multihex buildings that have been hammered with arty. Save the game then restart and the building will be restored and you won't bump into it accidentally.

The issue is NOT going to change unless we figure out why hexes under multi-hex buildings will vanish when the registration hex for the building is converted to rough so half the battle for players is understanding why it happens and what I wrote is why it happens..... the registration hex is being converted to rough and multi hex buildings over rough need to have that hex be anything but rough or it will disappear until the save game is reloaded

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Karagin

When I have seen building do the vanishing trick, it's normally in a large urban area, the Battle for Rome scenario is one that I have seen in, I think it was that, need to check again, but it cost me a vehicle when I went cool clear terrain and found out other wise as drove into the wrong hex without paying attention to things.

And we have this



If you see that message even if you don't see a building don't press Y. ASSUME the building is there, you just don't see it


We are actively looking into a solution for this but there are warnings......don't ignore them

[Mobhack]

There is definately some repair code for buildings and other stuff that I wrote a decade or more back that cures the problem if you load a game from the save file. Multi hex buildings were always a problem from the SSI days on, and we have been fixing them like forever it seems...

It will likely require a small fix to the code that rubbles buildings which seems to be placing a rough hex there sometimes, either that or simply perhaps by calling the map repair code at the end of the player and/or AI phase, or the bombardment phase since it only seems to happen with arty terrain "modification".

I may try bombarding a test multi hex building with an SU-152 in direct fire mode and see if blowing the registration hex to blazes with that mode of fire also shows the problem - it would be far simpler for testing than randomly pounding the ground with all the heavy artillery of a corps to see the effect.