Seekers ability to hit a target.

[dmm]

NOW I can't believe that you guys LIKE that seekers always hit -- regardless of target ship size, initial distance, ECM level, or environment (nebula or storm). As far as PD goes, it is not a guaranteed defense, it has to be researched, and is a waste unless the enemy happens to be using seekers or fighters. And even though missiles are heavy, they do tons of damage, much more than anything else at the beginning of a game with low starting tech.

HELLOOOO PEOPLE! The simple, complete solution to the so-called "missile dance" problem is to enable their to-hit probabilities. No wonder the AI has problems!

[Drake]

Ummmm, wouldn't that just make them really slow beam weapons?

-Drake

[This message has been edited by Drake (edited 24 January 2001).]

[geoschmo]

quote:

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What do you want fixed? The fact that the game shows a "to-hit" percentage for missiles, or the fact that they always hit

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I am not sure I wanted anything fixed. Pretty much I was just trying to confirm wheather or not what I thought I was seeing was correct.

I guess when you think about it a small, manuverable, missle should be able to pretty much able score a hit every time. We are pretty close to being there now with present day technology. In the future, in space with no wind to factor in, and considering the targets are much much larger than the missle, and much less manuverable, then it should hit every time if it doesn't run out of fuel before it makes contact.

Perhaps there will be an element of chance, say a missle is a dud or something like that. But most likely it would be so rare as to not be needed to be figured in for game purposes.

I think the real "problem" if there is one is that missles are available as a starting tech. This makes it much harder on the ai, unless they happen to have missles as well.

Didn't you have to research to get CSM's in SEIII? The early game then was much more touch and go simply because if you wanted to hit the Ai's escort with your APB/MB you had to get in range for him to hit you too.

I remember several times in SEIII that I would play a few hours on a game before I could say I had it under control. With SEIV that pretty much happens by turn 40 at the latest. By that point I am too far ahead of all the ai's for them to seriously challange me.

[Marty Ward]

I think there should always be a chance for any weapon to miss, even just a tiny one. It make things a little more interesting.

[Tomgs]

Missles should perhaps have a chance to do half damage on a percentage basis instead of missing to simulate a near miss. That would even it up a bit.

Missles are nearly unbeatable in the early game against the AI, but are almost worthless against a human ship (but not so worthless against planets) in tactical combat, what a difference. The ability to run out of range would be a major liability of missles if the AI would just do that a bit more often.

[Zanthis]

I dislike missiles (seekers) having a 100% to hit chance (I also dislike the error in displaying to hit chances). This is my suggestion:

1) Add to the Settings file, a "Seeker Base To Hit Value" that is the chance to hit for all seeking weapons.

2) Seekers would not have their Base To Hit Value reduced by range (i.e., there is not Seeker To Hit Modifier Per Square Distance). Only Combat To Hit Offensive/Defensive Plus/Minus abilities would matter[1].

3) Modify the "Weapons Always Hit" ability to work differently when added to actual weapons. Only THAT weapon always hits. I believe this is how the "Combat To Hit..." set of abilities work: all weapons if not on a weapon, just that weapon when on a weapon.

4) The default \Data\Components.txt file should have all seekers having the ability "Weapons Always Hit", thereby duplicating the current seekers always hitting.

This would allow those of us who want it to work differently to change things. On top of that, we'd always be able to make auto-hit weapons (rather than kludge of +500 to hit).

[1] I'd actually lean toward only taking the "Combat To Hit..." abilities from the firing weapon and all "Combat To Hit..." abilities from the targeted ship. This would mean the firing ships Combat Sensors wouldn't help its seekers to hit, but if you put +40 to hit on the launcher, that would apply. Or, that could be an option in Settings.

[Emperor Zodd]

How about chaff dispensers that can fire multiple times a turn and will cause missles to sometimes miss?!
They would be 10kt in size,and be a Last ditch defense against seekers.


[This message has been edited by Emperor Zodd (edited 25 January 2001).]

[Aegis]

Base 100% to hit at all ranges is fine I think. However, ECM's should reduce this chance, just as Ship size should adjust it also. Small ships with ECM's would thus be very difficult to target with them.
If anyone were then to introduce anti-fighter missiles these could have a bast to hit of over 100%, to reflect their increased manouverability, but also do less than 30 damage so that high level warships can always ignore them (w. em.armour).

-Aegis

[dmm]

It is STUPID that seekers always hit. Homing torpedos don't always hit subs or ships. AA missiles don't always hit aircraft. Smart bombs don't always hit tanks. While it is true that part of the reason is that our seeker technology is crude, the other part is that countermeasures are easier to make than seekers. Flares, chaff, decoys, etc. are small enough, crude enough, and effective enough that ALL warships would have them.

What are these seekers using to seek!? They never miss, and they never divert from their initial target. Explosions and weapons fire all around? No problem. Countermeasures? No effect. Identical ship crosses path of missile? It can't be tricked. Target goes behind other ships or planet? You can't hide. Debris, asteroids, storm, or nebula? No effect. ECM? Don't bother.

Instead of CSM it should be SCM, for Santa Claus Missile, in honor of their omniscience.

[dmm]

quote:

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Originally posted by Drake:
Ummmm, wouldn't that just make them really slow beam weapons?

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What beam weapon has a range of 12 or more and does damage of 50 or more?