MA Man in latest CBM

[Kuritza]

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

I look at it this way: Mothers of Avalon are recruitable everywhere, and they are supposed to commonly have warden bodyguards. So, it seems like wardens should be at least as common as the mothers.

!!!!!

By the way, its true. Since the whole 'witch and her warden' theme was inspired by the Wheel of Time (afaik), wardens should be recruitable wherever Mothers are.

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

I look at it this way: Mothers of Avalon are recruitable everywhere, and they are supposed to commonly have warden bodyguards. So, it seems like wardens should be at least as common as the mothers.

I would have to disagree with that line of reasoning with respect to recruitment.

Having aspiring witches start out outside the Forest of Avalon assigned to the local covens and train as they grow older and wiser, traveling the world as mothers of Avalon until finally they reach an age to receive their ultimate training in Avalon itself as crones of Avalon does not in any way imply that their wardens are trained outside Avalon - from a fantasy story point of view it makes excellent sense for the wardens to be trained in just one place (or two - the Tower of Avalon in the Forest of Avalon) by those who are mighty in the arts and then being assigned to the mothers of Avalon traveling the world.

The latter interpretation also happens to fit the warden flavour text considerably better than one where the mothers' "they are often accompanied by wardens sworn to protect them" is interpreted as meaning "you can recruit armies of wardens all over the world".

Ah, well, for probably well over 9 out of 10 users of the CBM the only important thing is the mechanical performance of a nation so it should not be shocking to me that it primarily caters to its intended audience.

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally Posted by Kuritza

By the way, its true. Since the whole 'witch and her warden' theme was inspired by the Wheel of Time (afaik), wardens should be recruitable wherever Mothers are.

You mean the same WoT where warders can be anybody to start with but are very carefully trained at exactly one place in the world, the white tower of Tar Valon*, after they are chosen as warders?

Well, until Rand bloody Al'thor came around and messed up the political scene, that is.

As for Dominions, the MA warders seem to be a good mix of the Tuatha bloodline story continued from EA mixed up with a bit of generic maiden/mother/crone mythology and a bucketful of Randland warders. The Warden of Dominions is what you get out AFTER he's been through the Tower/Forest of Avalon Warden program.

So nice try but no go unless you rewrite or ignore the Warden and witches flavour text.


* showing yet again how the pull of witches = Avalon + general mythology is nearly irresitable to a western fantasy writer as it has very deep roots in our popular cultures. Personally, I blame Sir Thomas Mallory's Le Morte D'Arthur, but realistically Geoffrey of Monmouth is probably the bigger sinner in this regard.

[thejeff]

Except that the Mothers start their training in Avalon as Daughters. Then go out into the land as Mothers. That's all clear from the flavor text of the Mothers and Daughters.
A strict reading would require all three to be capital only.

The warden text actually says nothing about where they are trained. Only that they are the sacred guard of the Witches and that they've been enchanted.

I agree that the best reading is that they are all trained in Avalon, but if you exempt the Mothers, I see no reason not to exempt the Wardens as well.

[Kuritza]

If Mothers start their training in Avalon and then travel the world so you can recruit them everywhere, they are accompanied by their Wardens. Who hail from Avalon and have Sidhe blood in them and are trained in one and the only place called whatever it is called, but travel the world with Mothers of Avalon.

[quantum_mechani]

Originally Posted by Peter Ebbesen

Ah, well, for probably well over 9 out of 10 users of the CBM the only important thing is the mechanical performance of a nation so it should not be shocking to me that it primarily caters to its intended audience.

I must I admit it's kind of funny being on the other side of argument, people are constantly trying to convince me to put things in CB I find thematically questionable. It's a major reason most changes are pure price tweaks.

In this case though, for reaspons that have been mentioned, that would not solve the lord warden's problems. Never seeing a unit used I find quite unthematic (and unfun). And that's apart from he fact they never specifically say they are trained in Avalon, and that the Mothers are already everywhere which, really, makes far less sense.

[Fantomen]

I like the change. It doesn´t disturb my sense of immersion and seems thematically acceptable.

[vfb]

Originally Posted by Calahan

While the recruit anywhere Wardens and Lord Wardens are a welcome boost for MA Man, I don't think a bless strategy can be based on them. (snip)

Cleveland did well with a E9N?A2 cyclops in a big MP game (sorry, the name escapes me), not even using CBM. A monk or two with a few Wardens can take on the PD of quite a few nations, and it's free in terms of gems.

[Squirrelloid]

Besides, flavor can always be rewritten. Anything can be justified as being thematic. Game mechanics are far more important because MP fails if nations aren't roughly comparable.

In this case, the flavor is even fine as is - its not about where they're trained, its about where they are *available*, and since they seem to roam the world after training, they are available everywhere.

[Foodstamp]

Originally Posted by vfb

Cleveland did well with a E9N?A2 cyclops in a big MP game (sorry, the name escapes me), not even using CBM. A monk or two with a few Wardens can take on the PD of quite a few nations, and it's free in terms of gems.

Needs more bard!