Mod: Bretonnia, Knights of the Grail

[Sombre]

Burn - do you still want me to go through the dm and smooth the descriptive text out a bit?

It would be easiest if I could do it in the dm and then just pass it to you.

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by analytic_kernel

My discomfort with the tag was related to the fact that they could take double damage from weapons with #dt_magic. But, I guess if they're "not quite human", then it's a moot point.

Yeah, the vulnerability to anti-magic gear was also intented feature. Dukes and Grail Knights are very strong for national, non-capital recruits, they need some sort of 'achilles heel' for opponent to abuse. If you look at their stats, you'll notice that there is no way those guys could be human (all stats +14!), so it also explains their superhuman abilities.

Originally Posted by Sombre

Burn - do you still want me to go through the dm and smooth the descriptive text out a bit?

It would be easiest if I could do it in the dm and then just pass it to you.

If you have the time, it would be nice. I'm a bit baffled by the Duke description for example, how could I make it more clear that the obscene resource cost is actually based on the Steward problem?

I'm also not too sure if I managed to explain the Feudal hierarchy clearly enough. Peasants -> KotR's -> Lords -> Dukes -> King. Or do I even really need to hammer it through?

[Humakty]

Very nice sprites, congrats !

I spotted both heroic weapons were length 0, isn't it supposed to be 2 for the sword and 4 for the lance ? I'm also wondering why breton lances deal only 8 damage, as opposed to the 16 damage of the regular lance.

In the fluff, aren't the peasants using hereditary longbows inspired from their elven neighbours's ones ? But maybe I'm mistaken on this one.

I find the ressource cost really high for a cap only sacred (grail knights). Overall their cavalry seems like nothing to write home about (more so compared to cbm varieties), I much prefer marignon/man/ulm one.

Playing them, the only easy solution seems to be going heavy on the thugs, or prod 3.

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by Humakty

I spotted both heroic weapons were length 0, isn't it supposed to be 2 for the sword and 4 for the lance ?

Yeah, you're right. Will be fixed for the next version.

Originally Posted by Humakty

I'm also wondering why breton lances deal only 8 damage, as opposed to the 16 damage of the regular lance.

The Breton Heavy Lance allows for strenght, unlike normal lance. So it's basically 18-20 damage (depending on the knight in question) and allows the damage to be boosted by Earth Might/ Virtue of Nobility

Originally Posted by Humakty

In the fluff, aren't the peasants using hereditary longbows inspired from their elven neighbours's ones ? But maybe I'm mistaken on this one.

Yeah, the Bowmen use longbows in WRFB, but it doesn't translate well to dominions 3. No matter how weak I make them, longbows are just that awesome that they'd overshadow the Knights by a wide margin. Bretonnia is a nation of Knights, not of peasant bowmen hiding behind yeomen arrow cathers.

Originally Posted by Humakty

I find the ressource cost really high for a cap only sacred (grail knights).

Well, they deserve it. Defense 18 + prot 20 + awe makes them practically invincible to regular troops. 2 of them with some peasant bowmen can easily conquer most independent provinces. Without bless. Don't forget the Grail Virtues, too. And the unrest reduction.

Originally Posted by Humakty

Overall their cavalry seems like nothing to write home about (more so compared to cbm varieties), I much prefer marignon/man/ulm one.

It' pretty easy to miss, but the Knights have "Destrier Hoof" that's basically boosted version of CBM "Warhorse Hoof". Also even Knight Errants boast armor equal to Knights of the Chalice/MA Man Knights. The jump from prot 17 to 20 is huge, making sure that most human spears can't afflict your precious knights even with lucky rolls. It also makes them suprisingly resilient to crossbows.

[rdonj]

I am wondering, does anyone else feel like footed knights errant/KotR are just overdressed chaff? Maybe it's just trying to use them according to your rules of conduct vs the AI, but they seem to be basically equivalent to yeomen in staying power, and yeomen do more damage so are arguably more useful. With their encumbrance and lack of killing power it's very easy to wear them down. So I wonder how possible it would be for them to be equipped with a two handed weapon instead. This would give them more of a niche in the army, and I think be thematically justifiable. Alternatively, could I tempt you into giving them tower shields? It wouldn't really solve their problem, but I think it makes sense to arm them differently when on foot to their armament on horseback.

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by rdonj

I am wondering, does anyone else feel like footed knights errant/KotR are just overdressed chaff? Maybe it's just trying to use them according to your rules of conduct vs the AI, but they seem to be basically equivalent to yeomen in staying power, and yeomen do more damage so are arguably more useful. With their encumbrance and lack of killing power it's very easy to wear them down. So I wonder how possible it would be for them to be equipped with a two handed weapon instead. This would give them more of a niche in the army, and I think be thematically justifiable. Alternatively, could I tempt you into giving them tower shields? It wouldn't really solve their problem, but I think it makes sense to arm them differently when on foot to their armament on horseback.

Yeah, footed Knights aren't even in WRFP roster, I just needed some noble troops that weren't mounted to balance the summons of the Knight Commanders.

I'll probably give them stronger physical stats than rest of the Knights. Perhaps even encumberance 2. Different equipment isn't out of the question either, but it would require me to new graphics and remove the heraldic shields.

One option would be to give them bigger standard (the peasants can relate better to footed knights).

[Noble713]

Tried running the mod with other Warhammer mods and Dom3 kept crashing. Turns out Bretonnia shares several #newsites with Chaos Undivided 0.55:

790 and 791

Chaos also uses 792 and 793.

[Sombre]

Er, their cavalry absolutely ruins marig or ulm's cavalry.

[Humakty]

*some clicks later,having understood the lance trick*(and compared vanilla resource costs !) : huh, well, I guess the half an hour editing limit will shout out loud to the world how much of a "insert favorite" I am. And I don't know for the fluff, but maybe longbows aren't required...

And really the graphics are cOOl !

[Trumanator]

Not sure where to go with this, but its a bit difficult to use the Dukes as PD raiding thugs when its so difficult to bless them. Thematically I suppose they can't have holy magic, but if they can only be maximized in battle that kind of hurts. The main issue is that its difficult to minimize their enc problem when they can neither bless themselves nor wear boots of the messenger.