Mod in Progress: Holy War

[Jarkko]

Originally Posted by Endoperez

Would you mind it if I incorporate some of these into Magic site Mod?
1) Temple of War (Holy 1, uncommon): units heavy infantry, knight; commanders crusader (H1), high priest
2) Monastery of Healing (H2, uncommon, unique): commander Faith Healer

If you find them suitable, please do add them

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by Endoperez

I think the tablet should state exactly how much gold its upkeep is. I don't know what's a reasonable amount, especially if it lowers unrest. Putting few of those into a rich province and increasing taxes would double the income without lowering population (since you don't even need to patrol).

Hmm. Yeah. I'll have to think about it more. The decreasing unrest is just so thematic that I'm afraid to let go. Perhaps decrease 10 unrest per turn and cost 50 gold of upkeep?

Originally Posted by Endoperez

I think Holy War Lite should have all kinds of pure-holy spells, and the bigger version should have more crosspath spells. I was thinking of Lite on my last post, trying to make the spells just holy versions of effects normal mages got access to several research levels earlier. A single-target damage spell at Evocation 4 isn't going to change balance one way or another. The only one I can really envision changing things is the Thaum 7 spell I suggested, because it will target enemy mage-priests if he doesn't bring any sacred units. Perhaps one of the Construction summons should be 20-hp, high-mr moving base that has a magical ranged attack. Anyone could construct one or two of those and use them to draw the spells away from the more vulnerable mage-priests. Or perhaps just make the spell have non-100 range, so that it's possible to position your important mages out of the range of enemy priests.

I thought that the Lite, normal, uber divide might not be best solution. I'll now divide the mod into these 3 parts (I've put the exact list of changes into the first post):

Holy War: Divine Magic - bumps divine magic
Holy War: Priests - bumps pure H priests and adds specially grafted national holy spells to encourage use of the national pure priests
Holy War: Sacreds - adds easier access to sacred units

Originally Posted by Jarkko

Burnsaber, I like your idea on Holy War Lite If I could add just one more idea for you to ponder:

Make all *national* pure priests (so not those mage-priests or SC chassis "priests") gain one level in Holy. So H1 priests would become H2, H2 would become H3, and H3 would become H4 (and in cases where H3 priests can be recruited everywhere (like the Lizard King for C'tis) change them to Capital only). Of course the price would have to be adjusted accordingly

You are on the right track. I now have 2 options about how I'm going to make pure national priests more useful

1a)Pure puff version:
- If a nation has a pure priest, it's magic will be boosted by one. H1 to H2, H2 to H3 and H3 to H4
Good Points: No need to nerf anything, everyone is happy
Bad Points: A lot easier acceess to H3 and H4 and to Fanatisicm and Divine Bless. Possible balance problems?

1b)
- If a nation has a H1 pure priest and no mage-priests, the priest will be H2
- If a nation has a H1 priest and a mage-priest with H1, the priest will be changed to level H2
- If a nation has a H2 priest and a mage-priest with H2, the mage priest will be changed to level H1
- If a nation has a H1 priest and a mage-priest with H2, the priest will be changed to level H2 and mage-priest to H1
- If a nation has a H3 priest and a mage-priest with H3, the mage-priest will be changed to level 2
Good Points: This means that if the nation has a pure priest in its roster, that priest will be the strongest holy magic user in the nation.
Bad Points: This might cause some thematic issues, but I'll be using this excuse: The weaker the unit, the humbler. The humbler priest -> better priest

Originally Posted by Jarkko

Currently there is really no incentive to buy national priests (except H3 ones, if you have a good bless the possibility to bless them all in one go and then smite smite smite), as indy priests are able to do everything national priests and you can recruit them from non-fort temples.

Yeah, I'm kinda trying to fix that.

Originally Posted by Jarkko

For Holy sites, maybe monasteries from where you can recruit special priests or sacred troops.

Way ahead of you. I'm going to make a whole bunch of sacred troops and units and add them as recruits from sites. All of the 8 holy crosspath summons & Templars & Shaolin Monks from "Holy war: Sacreds" will be added as holy site recruitables. The idea of shrouded assasins is cool thought. I probably can't make them be blessed all the time, but making them #onebattlespell "Bless" is probably enough.

[Trumanator]

This mod could make LA C'tis tomb kings much more interesting as thugs

[rdonj]

I suggest adding some ranged sacreds. There just are not very many of those in the game.

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by rdonj

I suggest adding some ranged sacreds. There just are not very many of those in the game.

Well, the summonable N1H1 summon in "Holy War: Sacreds" Will essentially be a classic D&D ranger. I might make them be Firbolg, sorta like the "Sleeper" summon.

The D1H1 summon will likely be archers too. Black Knights. They're a templar order that Pantakrator assigned with the task of guarding burial grounds. I'm modeling them after "Raven Knights" In warhammer. They will heavily armored knights with silvered longbows and swords (that'll be extra powerfull vs undead)

[rdonj]

Works for me

[llamabeast]

The idea of jiggling all the national holy paths sounds messy. I have an alternative solution: Make it impossible to recruit indy priests. Just set them to resources 800 or something.

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by llamabeast

The idea of jiggling all the national holy paths sounds messy. I have an alternative solution: Make it impossible to recruit indy priests. Just set them to resources 800 or something.

That is an option. But it would still leave the "Your best mage is also your best priest" - problem. Why ever recruit a national H2 priest when you can recruit a H2 priest that also has magical picks? It is not my intention to make these beasts of a unit any more powerful.

I failed to mention thought that "solution" 1b isn't set in stone. The changes will likely differ from nation to nation. Pythium for example. The divine power of the Arch Theurgs is so crucial part of nation's theme that I really can't touch that. Usually the mage-priest is cap-only so depending on the case, I might get the effect I wan't by just slightly beefing the national pure priest so that maybe he'll get recruited in your secondary forts.

[Jarkko]

Regarding recruitable H4 priests. If the price would be high enough and they would be capital only, there wouldn't perhaps be such a balance problem (I believe Fanaticism is at its highest value in the early phases of the game).

IIRC in CBM C'tis priests cost currently H1 $35, H2 $100, H3 $260 and they all are recruitable everywhere. If the "new" paths and costs could be for example H2 $80, H3 $260, H4 $600 and make the H4 one capital only, then I don't believe there would be at least a very massive balance issue

[llamabeast]

Hmm, well how about a combination of non-recruitable indy priests and jiggled national holy levels (mostly swapping holy strengths between mage-priests and pure priests)? I'm just uncomfortable with (a) not having a national H1 priest, and (b) including recruitable H4 priests. H4 feels so special to me that it seems wrong to have it recruitable. Also the presence of such high level priests will render Ermor and Carrion Woods Pangaea pretty doomed - have you seen the banish effect from a high level priest?

This isn't a desperately strong opinion by the way, just giving my thoughts.