Vengeance of the Dead makes me angry! - Page 2

Bananadine · #11 February 17th, 2010, 02:59 PM

Haha talking to forum people! Is there anyplace that isn't infected by 4chan's nihilism?

Well, I think if two-hour turns a few times a week are okay, then a three-hour rant, a few times per year, is okay too.

Trumanator · #12 February 17th, 2010, 03:02 PM

lol okay then, troll away

nordlys · #13 February 17th, 2010, 07:53 PM

I firmly believe that the ghosts killed in previous VOTD encounters should *not* mount up as brand new kills for the purposes of further VOTDs.

Come to think of it, stuff like soulless (their name kinda screams of it), longdead and many other undead, lifeless and/or mechanical units shouldn't produce vengeful spirits by any stretch of imagination.

Baalz · #14 February 17th, 2010, 08:40 PM

Meh, plenty of ways to die if you lose a MR check. Plenty of ways without that to. By design dominions has lots of ways to stop units from being practically unkillable. You could complain about how unfair it is that your pretender got magic dueled or you can just realize that's the risk of taking a low astral guy. VotD is the same thing IMO, just one of the many things you may run into that'll bite you if you've got too many eggs in one basket. VotD starts looking a lot less OP when you think about the fact that its a lot easier to get a mage who can teleport in and spam 3-4 soul slays before returning - which is way more effective in most situations and costs about the same pearls.

Slobby · #15 February 17th, 2010, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bananadine

...just lost has been with me for a year....

Aw and here I had been hoping that she would die to a doom horror after all the horror marks I gave her! Can we expect a mummy?

(all assuming of course that the unit you lost is who I think it is...)

Bananadine · #16 February 17th, 2010, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baalz

Meh, plenty of ways to die if you lose a MR check. Plenty of ways without that to. By design dominions has lots of ways to stop units from being practically unkillable. You could complain about how unfair it is that your pretender got magic dueled or you can just realize that's the risk of taking a low astral guy. VotD is the same thing IMO, just one of the many things you may run into that'll bite you if you've got too many eggs in one basket. VotD starts looking a lot less OP when you think about the fact that its a lot easier to get a mage who can teleport in and spam 3-4 soul slays before returning - which is way more effective in most situations and costs about the same pearls.

The difference I am pointing out is that all those other spells function in ways that can be understood pretty easily by somebody who merely reads their descriptions and sees each one used a couple of times, whereas Vengeance of the Dead's power to kill via weird turn-limit and routing rules is undocumented (within the game, anyway), mechanically inconsistent with seemingly related effects in other parts of the game, and somewhat inconsistent, too, with the game's fiction. It's a trap!

Yes I am talking about it in a way that makes it seem like a bigger deal than it is--for one thing, my unit wasn't all THAT important. But we have to magnify small things, in order to examine them in detail!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slobby

Aw and here I had been hoping that she would die to a doom horror after all the horror marks I gave her! Can we expect a mummy?

(all assuming of course that the unit you lost is who I think it is...)

She would have killed a Doom Horror, I think! Well, if not for premature routing. I will definitely pay more attention to the Flesh Eater and suchlike, in the future!

MaxWilson · #17 February 19th, 2010, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bananadine

Cripes, a commander can have 334 hit points, 20% regeneration, 30 morale, 21 protection, ethereality, zero fatigue gain, a vine shield, and an ELIXIR OF LIFE and still die from it! After the dead ones have already "routed"!

I guess I need to use charcoal shields instead, from now on. Or some kind of berserker suit.

Try to arrange to give her The Ark, which will kill essentially unlimited amounts of undead and will thus allow you to survive multiple failed VotD MR checks.

-Max

MaxWilson · #18 February 19th, 2010, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bananadine

Not if you don't know about the extreme harshness and (arguable) bugginess of the routing rules in this spell's battles! Of course I'd do that stuff NOW, but, see, that unit I just lost has been with me for a year. This isn't Starcraft or something, where you lose your awesome unit that you love and then start a new game twenty minutes later and build a new awesome unit! People should be expected to roll with the punches most of the time, yes, but not ALL the time--not when they're as nasty and cheap as this!

I'm surprised you spent a year building up one unit. Dom3 is a wargame, individual units are always expendable and die in great whacking lots. VotD is a lot less nasty than Petrify, for example.

-Max

Krec · #19 February 19th, 2010, 11:37 AM

i think its to help against the early SC rush.

MaxWilson · #20 February 19th, 2010, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bananadine

She would have killed a Doom Horror, I think! Well, if not for premature routing. I will definitely pay more attention to the Flesh Eater and suchlike, in the future!

There's an easy way to find out. Locate the combat where she died, and kill off all the undead with Shift-'K' and add in "Abomination of Desolation", "Slave To Unreason", or "Eater of Gods" with Shift-'U'. Kurgi is the most fun IMHO because most of his defenses are meager (Prot 7 IIRC), but Blood Vengeance +7 makes up for a lot.

-Max