The Patch!

[Jubala]

I see a perfect niche for a playercreated utility here. Comparing data files, listing differences and merging them and so on. Anyone up to actually coding it?

[Talenn]

LintMan and Baron:

Thanx alot for the help, guys! I was able to get it all taken care of tonight. But boy what a pain in the backside it was!

MM et al...in the future, would it be possible to make a list of at least which files contain changes? That would at least save us from having to go through and do a compare on every file that we may have ever touched just to make sure there are no changes.

Hopefully, the 'bulk' patch is behind us now and any future patches and upgrades will be easier to implement with existing mods. I hope so as one of the greatest strengths of the SE series IMO is the ability to customize so easily. I'd hate to see it become a major chore every time a patch is released.

BUT..that said...great job so far. I am really enjoying the game. I think I have almost as much fun tweaking and moding as I do playing! Well, maybe not quite.

Thanx again,
Talenn

[WendellM]

Talenn's problem (integrating modified items into patched data files such as Components.txt) led me to think about this matter (since I plan on creating modified or completely new data files).

As I see it, there are three ways to mod (restricted to Components for simplicity of this discussion; of course other things can be mod-ed): (1) create new components, (2) modify existing components, (3) delete unwanted components.

(1) is fairly simple: just add in your new items to the updated file. The only real complication is placing your items where you want them to appear relative to other items, since the file order seems reflected in the build/display order in the game. A possible solution would be naming the component which the new one would appear before or after.

To make (2) easier, the SE program could be modified to only allow one Version of a named component. So, when it reads in Component.txt, it compares each entry to all that have come before. If it encounters the same name ("Depleted Uranium Cannon I" for example), it replaces the previously read data with the new data (this is pretty easy to do - currently it just adds a new entry with the same name, but with the new stats.)

(3) can currently (and clumsily) be done by externally searching for what you don't want allow, and deleting those items. This could be automated by having a "Delete" entry that looks for the specified name among the earlier-read Component.txt entries and "forgets" the ones specified.

If this were done, mod-ers could just add their mod (add/modify/delete) items to the end of the updated data files, and these items would supersede the data from the Last patch. These "change" files could be updated for newer Versions of the data files with relatively minor changes.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts on possible solutions for what they're worth.

Wendell

[Rigelian Genocidal Maniac]

There are better/more friendly tools out there than Diff or FC. I use (for work stuff) a GNU-licensed piece of software called CSDIFF which will do this job well:
http://www.ComponentSoftware.com/csdiff

I haven't tried using mod files yet, but some issues occurred to me - how do you get around;
a) communication of a set of mod files? I mean, do you give them a name and distribute to all players for PBEM, who then point to them?
b) playing simultaneous games with different sets of files; do you have to go in and change the 'pointer' between taking turns?
c) trust! 8-) I mean, could one player make an outrageous change to a ship type (5000 space cruisers?), build a dozen of them then change it back? Would the other machines in the game detect this, accept his changes or collapse in a heap?
d) modified sets of graphics. If I want to use a 'MyBEMs' set, do I have to send this to all the players in a PBM game beforehand? If a player doesn't have the appropriate set or has mis-installed it, will the game use one of the 'default' sets of graphics?

[Tomgs]

Sir Darwin I also had the problem with the saved games. I used an existing race that I saved when I had all the colonization techs so that I would have ships already designed. But when I used that saved race to start a new game it showed all planets as colonizable to me even though I only had the tech for one type of planet. I thought that was because it saw I had ships with all 3 techs in my ship list. Of course I couldn't use the other colonization ships they said insufficient technology and couldn't be selected but since you do get experience points for using the same race over again this would be a deterent to that.

I haven't tried this yet since the patch so I don't know if it was fixed or not. I know they fixed another problem I had that caused a race to suddenly max out its experience points.

One thing I did notice since the patch the population growth was different in two games back to back using the same race ( I saved the race and selected it for the second game so the racial picks and bonus are identical). In the first on an optimal world with a jubilent population I had 37% growth the next game with only a good world it was 45% an unpleasant world had 41%.

[Comar]

I suspect that what you are seeing is some differences between Versions. The saved race was built using data that may have been changed or modified. When you load it, there may be an internal disagreement between data sets that causes a problem. But that is just a guess.

Try to build the same race using the current mod and see if you have the same problem. My bet is that you will not.

[Taqwus]

Yow. Looking through a diff, I find...

<code>
+ Name := Mental Singularity Generator III
+ Description := Telekinetic collapsing of a solid core into a singularity and then this is fired at a target.
+ Pic Num := 253
+ Tonnage Space Taken := 70
+ Tonnage Structure := 70
+ Cost Minerals := 700
+ Cost Organics := 0
+ Cost Radioactives := 500
+ Vehicle Type := Ship\Base\Sat\WeapPlat
+ Supply Amount Used := 20
+ Restrictions := None
+ General Group := Weapons
+ Family := 2050
+ Roman Numeral := 3
+ Custom Group := 0
+ Number of Tech Req := 1
+ Tech Area Req 1 := Psychic Weapons
+ Tech Level Req 1 := 6
+ Number of Abilities := 0
+ Weapon Type := Direct Fire
+ Weapon Target := Ships\Planets
+ Weapon Damage At Rng := 190 190 190 190 190 190 190 190 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
+ Weapon Damage Type := Normal
+ Weapon Reload Rate := 4
+ Weapon Display Type := Torp
+ Weapon Display := 32
+ Weapon Modifier := 20
+ Weapon Sound := wavegun.wav
+ Weapon Family := 45
</code>

I think we have a new winner for the "nasty-but-slow" award.


------------------
-- The thing that goes bump in the night

[Talenn]

Yes, saved races are definately bunked. I loaded my saved race and it seemed to have a permanent 'Maintenance Bonus'. Even loading the race and then scrubbing all the racial traits etc didnt remove the bonus. Kind of handy to be sure, but not exactly fair.

Also, a suggestion: Make the 'cost' of Maintenance Reduction in the Racial Traits screen far more expensive. I set it to 150 instead of the 50 it is at now and that seems more appropriate. At 50, its a total no brainer to max it out as 'upkeep' is by FAR the largest expense there is. And having the cost come down in such large chunks is a HUGE advantage. HUGE! Remember that picking '5' for that stat is actually reducing your upkeep costs by 25%!! Thats quite a bargain for 250 'race points'.

Anyways, thats just my $.02 on it. But for you folks that want a more challenging game, crank up that cost to around 150.

Thanx,
Talenn