Building a Better Pretender

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Sheap said:
If you wanted a good cheap W9 or N9 blessing, and a monster-type pretender, the dragon would be the way to go. For F9, you'd really be better off with the Moloch.

Except you can't solo-conquer independents with a Moloch, because of the Imps. Until this gets fixed, I know many players who'll pick the Red Dragon over the Moloch.

[archaeolept]

its not that difficult to conquer indeps w/ a moloch. just send in a little bit of useless backup.

[rylen]

Thanks. This is the sort of information I'm after. The Dragon/Wrym comparisions and ideas for the Scorpion King.

I'd been taking a conservative approach and backing even monster pretenders up with an army. But, properly scripted I guess I don't need it.

Nargot, the threads look intresting but . . . ma francais est plus mal.

Ah well.

Anyone ever weighted the general strengths of the standard human pretenders?

Rylen

[archaeolept]

Anyone ever weighted the general strengths of the standard human pretenders?

yes. they all suck, but the freaklord sucks more.

well, if you count the skratti, he's good.

[Sheap]

Human pretenders aren't THAT bad. They can only be safely used with nations whose initial armies can really mow down independents though, because you take a big hit in initial expansion with them.

With a human pretender, Twiceborn is a necessity. Once your human pretender turns into a wight mage (and let there be no doubt - he will get killed eventually) he becomes, if not exactly tough, a lot less weak than before.

Human pretenders, since they don't go into combat, can safely take astral magic.

Human pretenders research and site search *really fast*. If you have a human pretender you will have more gems than any other nation except for Ermor, who can afford a rainbow undead. Human pretenders also have unsurpassed forging ability. With an undead or titan pretender, after about turn 30, you'll have trouble finding them anything interesting to do. With a human pretender, normally the problem is deciding what important thing needs to be done now, vs. waiting a turn.

Among generally-available humans, my personal preference is the Crone. True, she's slow, and weak even by human standards. The speed doesn't matter that much - the only time she should ever leave the lab is to site search, and that can be done just fine with strategic move 1. And any human pretender that winds up in combat is in trouble anyway. On the positive side, she costs the least, and gets a whopping 4 misc slots. If by some miracle she survives until late game, her ability to wield magic boosters is unsurpassed. And if she doesn't, well, at least you got the cheapest wight mage.

The Master Druid is the best site-searcher. He starts with a point of nature, which helps, and he's stealthy, so he can accompany the army and search the turn after it's conquered. And the Frost Father is cold-resistant, which makes him good for cold nations. Of course, of the four cold nations (Jotunheim, Caelum, Vanheim, and Ermor), none of them have any business taking a Frost Father.

The Freak Lord isn't as horrible as he appears. He has extremely good defense, and the trample ability will let him deal with occasional enemies that get through his bodyguards in combat. This is also an excellent combination for dealing with assassins, but any human pretender should have bodyguards at all times. He loses a foot slot, but makes up for it with an extra miscellaneous slot, which IMO is more valuable. And he doesn't cost that much. When he was size-6 he was immune to Wind Ride, that's moot now. Of course, earth-4 magic is not a difficult thing for a rainbow pretender.

Among the nation-specific rainbow mages, the ***** Queen, Master Alchemist and Skratti deserve special consideration. The ***** Queen regenerates, has pretty good hitpoints for a human, and costs the same as less survivable humans. The Alchemist generates huge amounts of money. Finally, the Skratti is tough, as tough as any Jotun, and plenty strong enough to use as a combat-support mage. Or even an actual combat unit, if you feel lucky. The Skratti, of course, is broken in 2.11 and 2.12, but when he returns, will be so much better than any other rainbow pretender that you'll wonder how you got along without him. Other nation-specific "human" pretenders, the Warlock, Arch Druid, and Arch Seraph, don't really distinguish themselves that much (especially since the ***** Queen and Arch Druid are available to the same nation!). Still, they're typically going to be the best available human for the nation, because they have compatible resistances and abilities that complement their nation well.

[Inigo Montoya]

I appreciated your post, Sheap. I've never tried a Skaratti. Why is he broken in 2.12?

[Inigo Montoya]

Oh, I see now. You can't even select him anymore!

[Boron]

rylen said:
I'm sure this has been done to death before. Finding the thread though, that's tough.

I'm intrested in general discussion of the pretender chasis, setting the scales, and custom equiping. I'm really intrested in, how to use an immobile pretender.

Boron, I hope you or another strategy guide person will include some info on this.

What about the various humans? I've used the Sorceres occasionally for a cheap rainbow w/ added pearls. The sage makes sense for quick research. I've tried the druid to generate Vine stuff in SP but find, if he just hangs around, he's worth more as research. Has there been a discussion of these folks?

The discussion of special pretenders at: http://www.freewebs.com/dominions2/ in the guides, is great. I'm looking for that w/ normal pretenders.

Rylen

wow 2 days almost away and so much action on the board

@rylen my pretender guide is about 2/3 finished .

my favourite pretenders at the moment are :
-for blessing i find the f9 bless most useful because it is good and you get it so cheap with the moloch
with fire darts + some troops to prevent rout he can kill indies quite well too

-as ulm the master alchemist he is the best rainbow (doubled benefits from alchemy) and ulm can afford . with all other nations i take rainbows only in sp

-vq in lots of variations she is still a very good sc and you don't need to care if she dies
midgame she becomes forger/caster ...

-pod as a cheaper but not immortal sc .



someone mentioned the scorpionking before : if you give him earth 4 + fire 4 and search with him e.g. as abysia it will boost your earlygame income great
for this he is the cheapest pretender + he is ok as sc .

imo mainly though a cheap pretender for early money advantage + lots of scales .

[Evil Dave]

Boron said:
-for blessing i find the f9 bless most useful

To fill in a little more detail: F9 is a triple-threat blessing. It makes sacred troops impressively powerful in combat, it gets you an SC pretender, and it helps build up your economy.

I've found that an E9 cyclops gets similar, tho not as stunning, effects. E9 also benefits sacred mages (and mages with Shrouds of the Battle Saint) with a little armor and reinvigoration.

[Demosthenes]

Abysia with a F9/E9 Scorpion King and horrible scales, going for a Lava Warrior Bless strategy until you get the Blood and Devils flowing is pretty sweet too.

I would even lead my early army with the SK if possible. F9/E9 Magma Bolts is freakin horrible.