Without a Dom4, I'd *really* like to see the Dom3 code become public domain

[Zeldor]

Don't forget that content cannot be really copyrighted here. It's all mythology after all. So you'd pretty much have full rights if you got also code released.

[Gandalf Parker]

Besides all of the above....
Ive written programs that started out on ancient non-PC machines using languages too embarrassing to name which have since then been modified and converted to other languages. The result tends to be something that I would have to do EXTENSIVE rewriting before I would EVER let anyone else see it.
And there are people here who will never let me forget that.

We might (slim might due to the many other reasons mentioned already) get everyone in Illwinter AND Shrapnel to give permission for others to pursue an open source project completely duplicating Dom3 with full permission to use the name. I have seen that done in the past where the original developers did not want anyone else seeing their spaghetti code or their secret coding tricks. But as I said that would be slim.

[Beorne]

I asked this (to release the code or the rights to do something similar) time ago, in the forum and privately. There were no answers from the dev, and a long answer from Edi (a close source): in simple "no way".
But I don't give up hopes.
Thinking about Wesnoth as an example, and Dom3 has the potential to be much better.
One last thing, if a "redone" project should start, KO should release to the project all the data files, that are the very hearth of the game.

[lch]

Originally Posted by Endoperez

I don't see how lack of Dominions 4 will make Dominions 3 obsolete. Domininions shouldn't become obsolete as long as it is the best game of its genre.

I agree to that. Dominions 1 and 2 have both been rendered practically obsolete by their successors, but other than Dominions 4, I see no reason that the game would become obsolete in a long time.

I have no idea about the actual numbers of how many copies are being sold per week or per month, but I'd expect that it would make no sense to have the code become public domain unless it was several years after (!) JK and KO stopped caring about the game. It's an extremely rare thing to happen that a company does this step, too.

That being said, I know that there's more than one tech-savvy person, not counting me, who has interest in the code and would probably develop it further in a few areas if JK would stop the development. Since I'm not giving any names, I feel free to quote somebody here:

Of the many programs for which source code isn't available, I've found the lack of it for games to be the most frustrating. Most games have a very short economic life-time before they cease to be published and updated, and then the player community is completely helpless if there are remaining bugs or desired features. I wonder if there is some way to convince companies to allow access to the source code for old games, even for a license fee.

I doubt that it would be that hard to work with the code. Aside from few things (Nagot gick fel!), and ignoring what the comments would look like, if there are any, it seems to be mostly in English, and not too much of a beast that one won't be able to dissect it and do some minor changes.

I don't reasonably expect that the code will be released in the foreseeable future, though, not within the next 4 or 5 years, at least.

[HoneyBadger]

I think this thread is going in an entirely unfortunate direction.

Illwinter is a business, not a charity organization for wayward gamers, so, expecting them to give away the fine fruits of their hard labour is, in a word, insensitive. Especially around the holidays, which I'm sure profits from sales contribute directly to their enjoyment of-as well as the enjoyment of those they care about.

Does anyone wonder if Kristoffer or Johan have family to support? A mortgage? Taxes are high in Sweden, very high, as far as I've heard. They may not be in it for the money, but I'm sure the money is welcome, and they've earned it.

There are ways around it, anyhow.

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

I think this thread is going in an entirely unfortunate direction.

Illwinter is a business, not a charity organization for wayward gamers, so, expecting them to give away the fine fruits of their hard labour is, in a word, insensitive. Especially around the holidays, which I'm sure profits from sales contribute directly to their enjoyment of-as well as the enjoyment of those they care about.

Does anyone wonder if Kristoffer or Johan have family to support? A mortgage? Taxes are high in Sweden, very high, as far as I've heard. They may not be in it for the money, but I'm sure the money is welcome, and they've earned it.

There are ways around it, anyhow.

Honey,
I started all of this with the predication that I *want* the developers to continue to profit. I *fully* support them making as much money as they can.

I predicated all of this by saying - if they did not wish to do any further work; if they had no further interest ing the product.

Regarding Edi's comments:
Novel released dp into the public domain while retaining the Copyright to DataPerfect.

Allowing others to add *onto* your contributions ensures that your creation lives on. And various schemes would allow the authors to retain creative control.

But if anyone took this as stepping on the toes of the authors then I profoundly apologize. Quite the opposite.

I would definitely love to see the continue and expand.

[Tifone]

Well maybe it's just me but I like to give a read to the "Introduce yourself" thread now and then and the flux of newcomers doesn't really seem exhausted yet.

[Edi]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

Regarding Edi's comments:
Novel released dp into the public domain while retaining the Copyright to DataPerfect.

Allowing others to add *onto* your contributions ensures that your creation lives on. And various schemes would allow the authors to retain creative control.

But if anyone took this as stepping on the toes of the authors then I profoundly apologize. Quite the opposite.

I would definitely love to see the continue and expand.

There are various schemes to allow authors to retain control, yes. As far as I am concerned myself, most of those schemes are inadequate. Like I said, I was talking about what I personally would think in IW's position. someone else may have ideas more along the lines of yours. I don't take your comments as being stepping on anyone's toes, as we are having just a hypothetical discussion anyway.

As far as having others add to your creations so they can live on, I'm fully aware of that. The problem is that without involvement from the creator and good, involved and ironfisted quality control, there is a big risk that a lot of what will be churned out will be pure and utter crap and will dilute the franchise to worthlessness. One warning example is the way the Star Wars franchise has gone down the tubes since the early 1990s. You'd have to pay me to read that stuff, especially the stuff that has come out since Karen Traviss essentially hijacked the Clone Wars timeline and later turned the post New Jedi Order stuff to another anti-Jedi Mandalorian crusade. The movies are great, some of the post-movie and pre-movie books are great and most of the books are utter shyte.

I have some ambitions of writing stuff of my own at some point, so I'm viewing this from that perspective.

[HoneyBadger]

The game continues to expand, though, not only with all the new people (hi new people! ), but with the large and active modding community, and content added several times a year by the Devs. For free, by the way--no need to purchase that expansion pack.

If the forum was dead, if the game hadn't been updated in 5 or 10 years, then yeah, I'd be all over that source code. That's not what's happening.

There's new content up on the progress page as of the 30th of November, by the way. 15 days after the *last* update. That's from just 2 guys, working full time, and doing Dom3 *and* their secret project, in their spare time. And this is encroaching on the holiday season.

[Soyweiser]

Originally Posted by Zeldor

Don't forget that content cannot be really copyrighted here. It's all mythology after all. So you'd pretty much have full rights if you got also code released.

Actually this isn't true. The names of mythological creatures cannot be copyrighted (As these are ancient history), but the actual stories of the dom3 nations can. These are new works by the devs. It doesn't matter that these stories are inspired by mythology. If I write stories about the adventures of T'ien Ch'i vs Midgård Illwinter could not stop me, by claiming copyright infringement. (1)

But you cannot copyright game mechanics. You can copyright game images, boards, tiles, the way the rules are written etc. But not the rules themselves. (I don't know for sure if you can copyright statlines, but I assume you cannot, as they are just a collection of numbers).

If you throw in patents and trademarks the whole discussion changes of course. But these tend to cost money. Copyright is free.

But remember, I'm not a lawyer. And it differs from country to country. (And even from judge to judge).
And my information is based on the US copyright website.
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html

Is the code for dom1 and dom2 open source actually? Why not ask for the code to that first? I'd say, open source dom1 first!

(Actually, I would be more interested if the game images where put in public domain, or released under a license. Good unit sprites are a lot harder to create than programming code .)

Note:
(1) Actually they could stop me, but that is just by throwing a lot of lawyers at me. But they would not have a case, but it would still force me to get a lawyer, go to court etc etc. Wasting my turns .