StarFire Mod v-Beta 2

[President_Elect_Shang]

I had to split the gun missile launchers; I could not get them to do double duty. That is to say fire in sprint and non-sprint mode. Your comment about the capital missile launchers is correct. They can fire most of the earlier generations of ammunition. I should also mention that according to the UTM 1.1 (Unified Tech Manual) which I am using to create the components there are many types of launchers (at higher tech levels) capable of firing capital type munitions.

About the drones, I would not need to drop the fire rate to less than one per turn. I could mod the launchers to fire two or more per turn, sort of like attacking the problem from the other side. This of course would create another imbalance. Ok so toss that idea out and I will stick to the two types I have now, Sprint and Non-Sprint launchers.

The problem with XO racks has been solved in my Mod; I think that the beta testers will be very surprised at how they work. The ammunition for them will need to be manufactured, but then again in SF (StarFire) you must manufacture, load out, and ship munitions. This is one of the more enjoyable aspects at least to me and to one of the other beta tester in the group. All of that aside it was also the only way I could get the XO racks to work.

DemoMonkey are you one the Beta Testers, I don’t think I got an email from you, but then again some of the beta testers came to me from other places than this forum. Either way keep the thoughts coming in; they are giving me food for thought.

Mod Status: Feeling a touch of the flu coming on but I am up to HTL 15 out of 16, some known bugs.

Beta Testers can you do a plug or two here to help me out some? I may be laid out with some medicine tonight and tomorrow, besides I would just like to have your thoughts on the great Posts placed here so far.

[ January 29, 2004, 21:10: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ]

[President_Elect_Shang]

Making better progress than I thought; Beta testers start emailing me with the address you want to receive the zipped beta at. Also I use WinRAR to zip (creates a ???.rar file), If this is a problem and you do not feel like getting the software for free than tell me in your check in email that you do not want it zipped.

Progress: HTL15 complete, HTL 16 is small, known issues. Next is vehicle file and 90 percent of that is already done.

[Growltigger]

President Elect Shang, dont know all the gobbledygook you are talking about with the zipped file and all that. I have just discovered fire so it may take me some time to get to understand all this zipped file stuff.

Personally, I think we are getting a bit too excited about sprint and non-sprint missiles.

As I recall, the whole thing about "sprint" weapons was that they could not be stopped by any point defence ergo they were short ranged super fast weapons. In the earlier Versions of starfire, the sprint missile launcher was referred to as a gun ie a linear accelerator chucking out effectively shells.

To avoid getting bogged down in the drone issue (and here I believe that having to build all your submunitions may be a right royal pain up the backside), why dont you simply redesignate the DUC as a sprint missile launcher, tweak its abilites to match starfire cannon, and bob's your uncle. Has the same effect, kind of looks the same, super fast missile that hits at short range, can be built in a capital Version (more damage etc or use the mount bases) and cant be stopped by PD?

You can then concentrate on the missile launcher types for everything else.

Re AMBAAMS, SBM etc I think you drones for this

[DemoMonkey]

(Disclaimer: I already made this post once, but it seems to have vanished. If you've read it before, my apologies.)

"DemoMonkey are you one the Beta Testers, I don’t think I got an email from you."

Nope, not a tester, just a run of the mill SEIV fanatic. The idea of a SF mod lured me out of lurkerdom.


Idea for closed warp points (cwp). If you can't change the rules, change the interperetation...

Assume that there are cwp galore, they're just all closed on both ends. (Yeah, yeah, I know, just go with it.) We can't say they are in any given place - of course, we can't say they AREN'T in any given place either.

Lower the tech level required for the component that opens warp points. We want people to have use of it, even in the midgame. Require it to also have a level in Scanners, as well as Stellar Manip. Rename it to "Advanced Warp Point Detectors". Or "Science Labs". Whatever.

So you build one, use it, and presto! You haven't ripped a hole in space and time, you've just "located" a warp point that was there all along.

Lower the numner of allowed wp per system from 10 to 4 to keep players from creating hub systems (yeah yeah, I know about Alpha C., let that slide too) and take the component that destroys warp points out entirely.

Net result? While it's not EXACTLY the same as cwp's in "canon", it does provide the same strategic risk of having the enemy suddenly pop up in your core systems. And it doesn't require any new mechanics.

I know this is a wordy description, but the change is actually quite simple. Simple enough that even I could make it, and when it comes to modding I need a drool cup and a helmet.

Hope that gives you some more food for thought.

(Chatty for my first week, ain't I?)

[President_Elect_Shang]

Man do I feel miserable, I hope to shake this flu soon. In the mean time I have an idea that I want to run past you beta testers.

I want to start all players at HTL zero (IND2) as opposed HTL1, I will adjust the Commercial Engine to become a HTL zero (IND2) system. This is a house rule that I played with and it always worked out pretty good. All other systems for building ships exist at the HTL zero (IND2) stage and I would like to keep this house rule in the Mod.

Thoughts, Ya, Na?

Growltigger: That is how I have them now; I will be keeping them that way, majority vote rules.

DemoMonkey: The problem with the WP idea is that in SF WPs can not be made they are all fixed and only closed WP can not be located until used from the open side. If I moded a component that allowed them to be created that would effectively eliminate WP defenses and along with that an entire line or two of technologies that evolved out of the defense and assault of WP. You are free to ask the beta testers to vote on the subject and I encourage ideas like this. I however am not too fond of the idea. Still majority rules.

Chatty for your first week? No keep the good ideas rolling in.

DemoMonkey I give you 5 stars for your thoughts and ideas, thank you and keep posting.

[ January 30, 2004, 15:54: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ]

[Dan Kochheiser]

Originally posted by President Elect Shang:
I want to start all players at HTL zero (IND2) as opposed HTL1, I will adjust the Commercial Engine to become a HTL zero (IND2) system. This is a house rule that I played with and it always worked out pretty good. All other systems for building ships exist at the HTL zero (IND2) stage and I would like to keep this house rule in the Mod.

Thoughts, Ya, Na?

As a house rule, that is interesting, but for Starfire, this would make IND-2 races more useful than they are in cannon.

I'd prefer that the Ic and I stay at HT-1.

Also, is Alkelda Tech going to be used?

[DemoMonkey]

Shang

Hope you feel better soon.

Yep, I know my idea doesn't work EXACTLY the same way. But ask yourself the tough question - would you rather have something that has the same game effect as cwp's (ie, the potential for unexpected attacks and rude surprises) even if it's not identical, or have nothing? Which is worse, a game where cwp's don't operate exactly as they do in the source material, or a game without them entirely? Which is more heretical?

"If I moded (sic) a component that allowed them to be created that would effectively eliminate WP defenses "

Ummm, isn't that exactly what makes cwp's so nasty in the first place?

And as for not "making" them, look at it this way. When you use one of the suggested components, you are NOT making a new warp point. You are "finding" the open end of the warpline that's already there.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Right Dan, I follow just what you are saying. I did not intend to include this house rule in the Mod however it struck me that unlike SF in SE4G IND-2 would not be present. I would have to modify them in as neutrals, even then unlike the rules they would be able to develop HTL1 fairly quickly. I could not mod the AI non-neutrals in as IND2 or that would give the human players far too much of a head start. My point for suggesting the change is that I really couldn’t see any practical application for IND2 at all. I feel that a change would be best, if we do not give HTL Zero (IND2) an engine of some sort than I feel we should at least combine all HTL Zero (IND2) and HTL1 systems into a single unit.

Feedback?

Forgot to address your question. No AD at this time; if this Mod works out I may look into adding it at a later point as an update.

[ January 30, 2004, 17:39: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ]

[President_Elect_Shang]

I also forgot to include that with the change to HTL Zero (IND2) I will need to adjust the tech level at which ships are developed. My Suggestion is:

Ships: EX/ES/CT
Bases: BS0/BS1
Freighters: FT0/FT1/FT2

Move down to HTL Zero (IND2), or we can do the alternative (stated below) and combine IND2 and HTL1.

[Fyron]

You could always just use racial traits to control what sort of building each race can do, based on whatever those options mean.