Devnull Mod Gold Version 1.60 - Page 3

Rollo · #21 May 17th, 2002, 07:36 PM

Quote:

<snip>One small comment about the monsters: They use all offensive intel. I understand that they need to have intel production to defend from crew insurrection etc, but it isn't very realistic to have them stealing my ships and empire data. Could I sugest giving them their own intel tech, with counter intel and maybe a few "special" intel projects: for example, rename the ship bomb so that it says "tiny space monsters have caused damage to your ship" or something.
<snip>

Hmm, that's bad. The Monsters are not supposed to use offensive intel. I assume they have gotten "Basic Intel" from somewhere. (FYI, I have added basic intel to the Mod to prevent Monsters using any intel except defense).

That is one of the things that I hope to have fixed in the next (unreleased) Version. I increased the number of monster tech levels, so they will research only that to infinity (well, not really, but in game terms). Also I have set "will demand surrender" to False in the politics, so they shouldn't get tech from surrenders.

Not sure that I like the suggestion of special offensive intel projects. I would rather have them use intel for defense only.

Thanks for the feedback, Dogscoff. Your observation about all the races being on peaceful terms, because of the MEE monsters is consistant with mine. I'll change the MEE settings to a larger value for AI, because I don't think that this effect is desirable.

Rollo

edit:typos

[ May 17, 2002, 18:37: Message edited by: Rollo ]

dogscoff · #22 May 18th, 2002, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Thanks for the feedback, Dogscoff. Your observation about all the races being on peaceful terms, because of the MEE monsters is consistant with mine. I'll change the MEE settings to a larger value for AI, because I don't think that this effect is desirable.

I dunno... I'm now in the position where a dozen or so well-established empires are bordering one another in relative peace (a few fights have broken out) and the monsters are about to be eliminated. I can't wait, I reckon all hell will break loose as the AIs turn on one another (and me) at the same time. My Ringworld should be ready by then. I'm gonna wipe the floor with them.

Quote:

Not sure that I like the suggestion of special offensive intel projects

I guess they'd be like the random events. Could be fun: "Giant space lobsters have eaten 20000 Organics from your storage facilities." heheheh.

Derek · #23 May 18th, 2002, 07:00 PM

Rollo:

In my Derek's Mod Gold, which, as you know, includes your monsters, I've also seen the monsters use some offensive intel. I have also seen games where no-one uses any offensive intel at all. Rather strange.

Let me know what fixes you make, so I can include them in Derek's Mod Gold; that is, if you don't mind

Thanks
Derek

Rollo · #24 May 19th, 2002, 02:54 AM

Version 1.61 is currently uploading...

Dogscoff - I have changed the MEE settings to see how it goes. Good thing about SE4, of course, is that you can alter the settings to whatever you prefer

.

Derek - Hopefully V1.61 will have fixed the offensive intel for monsters. If it is still there, I might have to add a new racial trait "not a monster" (wouldn't really like this, though).
Not sure why some AIs don't use offensive intel in your Mod. Did you add "basic intel" to research and tech areas? That is needed to make normal (non-monster) intel possible.
The changes are all in the readme. If you have any problems or need more detail, let me know. Of course I don't mind that you use the monsters

. Unfortunately I didn't have the time yet to check your mod out, but I will in the future.

Rollo

Phoenix-D · #25 May 19th, 2002, 03:42 AM

"If it is still there, I might have to add a new racial trait "not a monster" (wouldn't really like this, though)."

What are you doing to prevent them from using offensive intel?

Phoenix-D

Rollo · #26 May 19th, 2002, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
"If it is still there, I might have to add a new racial trait "not a monster" (wouldn't really like this, though)."

What are you doing to prevent them from using offensive intel?

Phoenix-D

I have added a new tech area (basic intel) that is a requirement for the offensive intel projects.

Rollo

Phoenix-D · #27 May 19th, 2002, 04:31 AM

And then you have the monsters research Applied Intelligence?

What you could do, if that doesn't work, it make the monsters their own counter intel project, and give it the prereq that's the same as the monster ships. That way, they don't even have to research applied intel, so they won't have any of the other projects at all.

Phoenix-D

Rollo · #28 May 19th, 2002, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
And then you have the monsters research Applied Intelligence?

What you could do, if that doesn't work, it make the monsters their own counter intel project, and give it the prereq that's the same as the monster ships. That way, they don't even have to research applied intel, so they won't have any of the other projects at all.

Phoenix-D

Yes that was exactly what I did: Give the monsters their own counter intel.

The situation is a bit different in Devnull Mod though. Applied Intelligence is available from low tech level start. So I had to disable the projects that come from that.

There are now three Groups of intel projects in Devnull Mod:

1) requires Appl. Int. + basic Intel: projects that make sense for the AI to use (ship bomb, crew insurrection, etc.). The AI researches that as the first thing (cost is only 1)

2) requires Appl. Int. + human Intel: Projects that don't make sense for the AI (force concentration, etc). The AI does not have human intel in the research, so it doesn't waste points on those projects.

3) requires Monster tech: that is the Monster counter intel

That system should work unless monsters get a hold of basic intel somehow and of course full tech start.

So how can the monsters get this tech?

* ruins: they don't colonize
* research: monster tech now has 99 levels at base cost 200k. Since the monster research file only contains monster tech, it should take them a while to finish that and start working on projects that are not included in their file (didn't realize the AI would do that until lately)
* surrenders: the monsters do not send "demand surrender anymore"
* gifts/tributes: the monsters don't accept them anymore

Did I miss anything?

Rollo

Phoenix-D · #29 May 19th, 2002, 11:44 PM

"So how can the monsters get this tech?

* ruins: they don't colonize
* research: monster tech now has 99 levels at base cost 200k. Since the monster research file only contains monster tech, it should take them a while to finish that and start working on projects that are not included in their file (didn't realize the AI would do that until lately)
* surrenders: the monsters do not send "demand surrender anymore"
* gifts/tributes: the monsters don't accept them anymore

Did I miss anything?"

Don't think so. Only one way to find out, AIs being AIs

Phoenix-D

Rollo · #30 May 20th, 2002, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dogscoff:

quote:
Not sure that I like the suggestion of special offensive intel projects

I guess they'd be like the random events. Could be fun: "Giant space lobsters have eaten 20000 Organics from your storage facilities." heheheh.

I am still reluctant to add offensive monster Intel, because of the amount of intel points the monster generate. Also I would like to have them totally concentrate on defense.

But it came to me this morning, while still half alseep (Duh, sometimes you just overlook the obvious

): How about if we add "monster intel" as random events? A couple (or a lot?) of monster related events might be fun. It could even include hints/info about the monsters like how to beat them etc. (like scout or scientific reports). Also someone can make some neat pixel graphics (hint, hint

) to attach them to these events.

Good idea? (y/n)

Rollo

note to myself: first preview, then post

[ May 19, 2002, 12:14: Message edited by: Rollo ]