Question about Ukraine OOB...

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by DRG

How the AI picks things can be convoluted and depends on if they are rare ( radio code ending in 1 ) or common ( radio code ending in 2 ) or radio code ending in zero which is more or less " average

BUT

The AI tends to pick from the bottom of the list up and there are randoms built into everything in the game to stop it from being predictable but does seem if the AI finds too many rare units in a row it can sometimes just decide to pick one anyway and in the Ukraine OOB for example, the "western" armour is generally near the end of the list and the Russian origin units are more near the front

BUT

The picker may go all the way up one time then work it's way down or it may pick from the bottom of the list. We sometimes have had to make things rare near the end of the list just to keep the AI from buying it too often

If we apply this logic consistently that 10-20 vehicles of a type is enough to count as a real amount then this would change a lot of OOB.

Israel has Pereh ATGM. America has the BAe Nyala and a bunch of minor foreign vehicles. When you get into ammo types there's arguably a lot of different stuff that isn't represented. STAFF rounds, tungsten vs steel projectiles, etc.

But I understand if in this one case it's okay for Ukraine to have marders, which to my awareness it has not used.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Mustang

But I understand if in this one case it's okay for Ukraine to have marders, which to my awareness it has not used.

Forbes reports they have as part of the 82nd Brigade. Your 10-20 min vehicle idea is not going to be applied

Nothing is going to change in the OOB unless someone proves without a doubt that the vehicle was never in Ukraine and that kind of info might take a while to come to light.

In the meantime don't use it if you don't think you should

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by DRG

Forbes reports they have as part of the 82nd Brigade. Your 10-20 min vehicle idea is not going to be applied

Nothing is going to change in the OOB unless someone proves without a doubt that the vehicle was never in Ukraine and that kind of info might take a while to come to light.

In the meantime don't use it if you don't think you should

Understood. The one thing I would add to the OOB is the large partisan and irregular forces on both sides, if you have to add anything to the OOB it would be the irregular forces first.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Mustang

The one thing I would add to the OOB is the large partisan and irregular forces on both sides, if you have to add anything to the OOB it would be the irregular forces first.

They are really only of use in scenarios and they can easily be created by the scenario designer from existing units in either the main two OOB's or the Red or Green OOB. Both Red and Green have "rebel" formations that can be used for that renamed

[DRG]

The third option, which is the one we are going with, is it stays as is and we ignore your "suggestions"

You blew any credibility you had out the window with "it's a tank game. Infantry shouldn't even be in the game" even with your additional comment "Although I understand it has to be, the focus of the game is on tanks."

No, it's a "combined arms" game as we state right at the start of the game guide.........

WinSPMBT is a Post World War II combined arms tactical level wargame

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by DRG

The third option, which is the one we are going with, is it stays as is and we ignore your "suggestions"

You blew any credibility you had out the window with "it's a tank game. Infantry shouldn't even be in the game" even with your additional comment "Although I understand it has to be, the focus of the game is on tanks."

No, it's a "combined arms" game as we state right at the start of the game guide.........

That is fine. I don't need to debate that.

The more fundamental issue is that Ukraine just becomes the red-green (yellow?) "Buy everything" country.

[DRG]

Yes, so what ?
Lots of nations have a mix of vehicle origins though right now Ukraine is the king of the hill for that but that's they way it worked out and we are not going to ignore it

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by DRG

Yes, so what ?
Lots of nations have a mix of vehicle origins though right now Ukraine is the king of the hill for that but that's they way it worked out and we are not going to ignore it

OK, but even then we might end up in a situation where Ukraine has literally no Bradley left.

Ukraine started with 100 Bradley's in March. It lost 50-60 in 6 months. At this rate it will have 0 Bradley's in February unless restocked.

Is there any accounting for a country that had equipment and then lost it? I haven't seen any legislation to replace the losses, they are getting a mix of other vehicles but they seem to be heading to 0 Bradley soon.

They are of course capturing abandoned Russian equipment which is the source of their growth.

[Mobhack]

You have your opinion and we have ours.

As mentioned earlier - if you really think you are the expert here, you can edit your own OOB with Mobhack for your own use. You can even post that in the Mods forum to see if anyone else agrees with you.

Meanwhile, we will stick to what is being reported via reliable sources. The UKR OOB may well change by next Spring, from further info supplied by these sources. Maybe those will match your opinions as expressed here, but most likely not.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

You have your opinion and we have ours.

As mentioned earlier - if you really think you are the expert here, you can edit your own OOB with Mobhack for your own use. You can even post that in the Mods forum to see if anyone else agrees with you.

Meanwhile, we will stick to what is being reported via reliable sources. The UKR OOB may well change by next Spring, from further info supplied by these sources. Maybe those will match your opinions as expressed here, but most likely not.

I'm fine with that. I'm just not surprised if Ukraine ends up losing equipment it now has zero of.