PBW : Paranoia2

[Unknown_Enemy]

PONTINE LEEPERS LAW
It is forbidden to give planets to a player. You can exchange ships if you want, but no player should be artificially keept alive by the mean of planetary gifts.


From Paranoia 1 and the infamous Pontine misconduct (may they be cursed for eons), we can say that if a small empire is sold a colony ship, it is at risk of loosing it very easily by the mean of intel attacks. Planets can be harder to destroy with intel, and I want to keep ship trade in the game.

[spoon]

You really would need to ban the gifting of colony ships as well, otherwise the Law is too easy to circumvent, intel or no.

[spoon]

Actually, I guess the Law could be circumvented in a number of ways:
1) Gifting colony ships
2) Gifting a ship with troops
3) Gifting Construction ships/bases
4) Letting PPP intel attacks get through (though this one is slightly risky, since you'd have to drop all your CounterIntel)

Any others?

[se5a]

can we restrict partnership treatys to only 2 empires? (ie yourself and one other)
that way intell wont get totaly out of hand.

I wouldent mind using the pvk balance mod,
I like haveing strong troops...

[PvK]

Gifting ships leaves many loopholes for perpetuating indefinitely any empire who isn't as lame as the Pontine Lepers were.

To add to the list:

5) Gifting a ship with boarding parties or allegiance converter, which happens to be stacked with a colony ship.

PvK

[Nocturnal]

Plus, inability to gift ships leaves so much room for subversive and sinister fleet movements like I just outlined.

"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."

[Phoenix-D]

I'm in. Prefer no gifing at all. If it is allowed, I suggest the condition for victory be when your target:

-has no planets
-has no SELF BUILT colony ships (i.e. those with a picture matching your races).

And no gifting of colony ships allowed. This allows better enforcement, though trading beforehand is still a possibility (which is why no gifting c ships- so there is -no- reason to have a colony ship with another race's image)

[Unknown_Enemy]

SUMMARY :
- Victory condition : you win when your target has no planets.
- Ship trading can only take place between similar class ships.
- Spirit of rules prevail on the letter of rules, differences of interpretations shall be handled by Tescosamosa

First,
Victory condition : you win when your target has no planets. Your foe can still have tens of ships, if it has no planets it is dead and you win.

Second,
We all agree that ship gifts is forbidden. But I would like to keep in ship trading as well as pop trading. It can spice the political game.
So what would you think of the following rule :
Ship trading can only take place between similar class ships. Which means a colony ship must be exchanged versus another colony ship, a light cruiser versus another light cruiser and so on.

All rules can be bypassed, and at the end of the game, we will have to stick to the spirit of the rule rather than the letter of it. That point will be enforced by Tescosamosa (who's gonna get lots of new "friends" ) as a non playing game master.

Third,
PvK, your points are valid, but we cannot enforce every rule in the game due to limitations of SE4. That is why I think it is better to have a "juge" as Tesco to handle the difficult end game. Indeed the end of Paranoia is difficult, you get all players suddenly loosing while just ONE is declared victorious.

Now to my dear friend Nocturnal :
If I have to send in my fleets to stop your enemy and save your ***, I am in NO WAY about to give you anything. I prefer to keep a powerless neighbour that way. And eventually if you are a small empire, you could not support the ships I am giving you.

Remember : you will NEVER help someone because you like him, but just because you don't want to loose.

To se5a
remember that there is no allied victory in this game. And partnership can be a political tool. It was eficiently used in the Last game....

PS : Welcome to Phoenix-D, bla-bla-bla....kill him kick .

[ November 26, 2003, 15:14: Message edited by: Unknown_Enemy ]

[Phoenix-D]

Uh, no, I didn't.

I was the one who took over a weak empire and spent the rest of the game trying to build a sphereworld so I could have SOME hope of living without trade.

[spoon]

Originally posted by Unknown_Enemy:

- Spirit of rules prevail on the letter of rules, differences of interpretations shall be handled by Tescosamosa
[/b]

I'm personally confused as to what the Spirit of the Rules is. And I don't understand what limiting trading to like class ships is supposed to accomplish. Gifting of warships seems like a great thing to allow. Providing other players with remote colonies seems like something that will painfully prolong the length of the game...