Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV

[AMF]

Actually, the genesis of such child protection laws are generally attempts to prevent egregious child abuse. Maybe it's just me, but when I hear about parents beating the snot out of their kids such that they break bones or inflict permanent injuries, or when they lock them in basements as punishment for days at a time, or any number of other awful things that they do to kids who CANNOT protect themselves, then, yes, I do support such laws.

What I think you're reacting against is the notion that such laws are either (1) too far -reaching or (2) enofrced beyond all reasonablness. Both of which I would agree with you. Such laws should be limited in scope and application and should have a satefy check in the courts. And, I think the latter does occur often. Not sure aboutt he former.

[AMF]

RE:

"left wing, count to 10, time out, never spank your child, always talk soothingly, democrats can kiss the fattest whitest part of my buttocks."

No thanks.

FWIW, my sister never has hit her kids, they're just fine. Igot spanked twice in my entire childhoold, I did pretty darn good despite all odds. Perhaps something else is going on in the families you mention? Maybe it's a self versus community issue (as most reactionary v. progressive issues are at core).

[AMF]

Just a guess, but this was on Fox "news" right?

Originally posted by Atrocities:
I was watching the news tonight and they mentioned that Kerry and Edwards are in favor of banning or limiting the production and or sale of violent video games.

[David E. Gervais]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Why can't parents take responsibility for their kids?

Well, the answer to this is simple,.. because the parents are not at home to raise their kids. So why should they be held responsible? (in case it is lost in print..this statement is dripping in sarcasm.)

Seriously, in my generation, there was always one of the parents at home to 'raise' the kids. (And the parent that worked made enough to support a familly of 4.) Today, due to the extremely fast rising cost of living, both parents need to work just to make ends meet. More taxes, rising prices on 'necessities' and lower wages (based on the cost of living) is destroying the social structure. Oh, and in case none of you have noticed, within 5-10 years it's going to get extremely worse. The worlds 'infrastructure' (highways, bridges, sewers, etc.) is crumbling at an allarming rate. 50+ years of 'Patching' things that needed to be replaced is going to come to a climax.

Mark my words, things are going to get very 'Interesting' and this is indeed a curse.

[/babble mode off]

Cheers!

[AMF]

Originally posted by Atrocities:
And no offense, but many people do not agree with the liberal point of view on a great many topics. And for the record, I think we need liberal ideas and laws, but over the Last twelve years the liberal laws that have been enacted have only limited our freedoms and free choices. The liberals that force fed us these laws I think we can do without.

Like that liberal John Aschroft?

[Atrocities]

I think you should do some research on the subject of what CPS (Child Protective Services) has done to people. It is rather frightening. In 90% of the cases in Clark County Last year CPS removed children without cause. 10% of the removals were for cause but only 1% were for actual cause.

The agency makes money by:
1. Investigating any and all complaints wether they are a real issue or just someone making them up.
2. Taking the children out of their homes and placing them into foster care. 90% of the time without justifyable cause.
3. Force the parents to pay for parenting classes, take anger managment, and pay "child Support" to the state even if the removal of their child was in error.
4. Keep the family in the system and force the parents to pay for and submit to repeated home visits, inspections, and audits.

90% of the people who lost their children to the state CPS system Last year should not have according to the law.

Case in point, my neighbor was accused of beating his child when his boy crashed his quad and his dad took him to the ER. The doctors called CPS and a case worker came to the hospital and talked with the boy without ever notifying the parents. She told the boy that she "knew" that his father was abuse and that she was going to protect him. The boy had never been hit by his father, only yelled at occationaly and that was all of the justification that this case worker needed to yank Matt out of his home.

They charged the parents with child endagerment for letting him ride his quad without proper supervision, child abuse for yelling at him on occassion, and child neglect for leaving him at home during the summer without adult supervision. They also attepted to charge them with child abandonment but that was dropped. Matt is 15 years old now, and was 12 at the time this happened. He continously denied that he was ever abused or subjected to abuse but was ignored.

While in foster care he told us all that EVERY ONE of the children in his foster home regarless of their age were pulled from good homes without cause.

This was cooberated by a state senate investigation back in 1994, 95. At that time they were ordered to disconiue the "whole sale" methods of taking children out of carring homes over minor infractions. CPS, having no oversight committe, and answering to no state agency ignored this senate mandate and continued to do business as usual.

For Matt's parents, it cost them nearly 20 grand before they were able to get Matt back and they are still fighting and paying. Matt has also developed the mentality that he can get whatever he wants now simply by threatening to call CPS. His father is at wits end and is about to divorce his wife to get away from the BS.

And she has said that she wants to file with the state to release her son from her custody. I forget the term.

All of this because of CPS.

And for the record, he was being supervised, he was racing at PIR at the time of his accident. So again the state had no right to file charges, but did so any ways because of the CPS case worker who I might add is one evil sick B***H.

And this is the norm not the exception.

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by alarikf:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Atrocities:
And no offense, but many people do not agree with the liberal point of view on a great many topics. And for the record, I think we need liberal ideas and laws, but over the Last twelve years the liberal laws that have been enacted have only limited our freedoms and free choices. The liberals that force fed us these laws I think we can do without.

Like that liberal John Aschroft?

---

LOL.

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by alarikf:
Just a guess, but this was on Fox "news" right?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Atrocities:
I was watching the news tonight and they mentioned that Kerry and Edwards are in favor of banning or limiting the production and or sale of violent video games.

---

I would have to say yes even though they really are not part of FOX news. This news station is prodomently liberal democrat and loves Kerry. They reported the story as if it was a good thing and not a bad thing.

[AMF]

I see your point, and in this case it definitely sounds messed up.

I think we agree that the *implementation* of such laws, at a minimum, needs to be changed. Oversight, proportionality, and checks and balances need to be implemented.

However, I think, from what I've read, we might also agree that children need some form of protection from the occasional terrible abuse. Just as there are plenty of stories of families who get screwed under CPS, there are just as many if not more about kids who are so abused that they are killed, permanently injured/multilated, or psychologically screwed up beyond beleif. In fact, on a compleletly anecdotal level, I have met a number of kids who fit into those categories who would have been well served by a third party intervention early in their lives.

So...the question then becomes, how to balance the need to prevent outrageous abuses with the right of parents to raise their kids as they see fit?

Is there an answer? Not sure...certainly not an easy one, of course...

But thats the real crux of the problem, no? Not the wholesale banning of outside intervention, I would say.


edit: snipped out long quote

[ July 08, 2004, 17:30: Message edited by: alarikf ]

[AMF]

In a related note, there is a vote on the Patriot act possibly coming up:

Patriot Act foes force House vote

Thursday, July 8, 2004 Posted: 10:46 AM EDT (1446 GMT)

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Lawmakers who say portions of the USA Patriot Act went too far are taking aim at its provision that made it easier for investigators to learn what people are reading -- despite a veto threat from the White House.

The House planned to vote Thursday on a proposal by Rep. Bernard Sanders, I-Vermont, that would prevent the government from using the Patriot Act to demand records from book stores and libraries.

The election-season showdown is the latest over the law, which Bush has sought to expand but which Democrats and some conservative Republicans say has infringed on individual rights.

...more at: http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/....ap/index.html