Advice for Abysia against Niefelheim

[Aleph]

What about Demonbred assassins with annoying items to try to pick off his leadership? I don't know, fire bolas, poison weapons + medallions of vengeance, maybe a black bow of botulf to at least feeblemind his blessers, or perhaps equip your assassins with slave collars and hope his prophet grabs it by accident. While he can take lots of ablative commanders to try to thin out your percentages on assassination, you can probably wipe out those guys with battlefield spells in your hit and run attacks.

[Graeme Dice]

Aleph said:
What about Demonbred assassins with annoying items to try to pick off his leadership?

I can't think of too many cost-effective ways to assassinate Niefel Jarls with Demonbred assasins or slayers.

[Aleph]

Well, I listed two of them above - you only have to hit with a black bow for auto feeblemind, and you can always gamble on the slave collar pickup, neither of which are expensive. He also said he's got heaps of money so he can try pretty much anything, so my impression was that it was less about cost effectiveness and more about getting the job done. It just depends on what indeps he's been able to pick up.

[Shovah32]

Graeme Dice said:

I can't think of too many cost-effective ways to assassinate Niefel Jarls with Demonbred assasins or slayers.

Demonbred assasins with cursing/affliction causing/diseasing weapons could be damaging to jarls that are equipped but i dont see them being too cost effective gem-wise(although boots of quickness, robe of shadows and 2 high damage AP/AN weapons might work)

edit: alephs idea of putting a load of cursed items on the demonbreds should also work(are cursed items automatically picked up? i forget. If so i hope it dosnt also count for magic hearts )

[Baalz]

One thing I think I did wrong with the salamanders was attack in a Cold-1 province, rather than a Heat-3 province. Would that make a lot of difference to the amount of damage the salamanders would do, and how quickly they get tired?

Yes, I'm not sure about the salamanders, but the heat/cold of a province makes a pretty significant difference on the durability of the giants (ice devils as well, FWIW). If my memory is correct there is a +/- 1 to both natural armor and defense (as well as strength) per temperature shift, which can make a sizable difference if you’re hitting for 20 (minus) 18, or 20 (minus) 12. The defense difference doesn’t impact the salamanders, but it does help the survivability against whatever else you’ve got and a difference of +/- 3 again, isn’t trivial. I know when I play Niefelheim one of my top priorities is to research to wolven winter so I can control the temperature for any big battles. I don’t remember, is there a heat counterpart to wolven winter? If so, that would definitely be something to look into.

At any rate, the heat scale definitely effects the amount of heat that your salamanders radiate even if it doesn’t directly effect the encumbrance of the giants. At some point it should be able to overcome the earth bless reinvigoration (maybe cast that internal furnace spell that increases your heat radiation?). Hmmmm, I’m not sure how the cold/heat aura’s interact with each other, but it seems like those salamanders radiate a fair amount and you can fit more of them into each square. Just a thought.

[DrPraetorious]

Actually, it's the *action point* bonus that really hurt him that battle. My giants practically teleported across the battlefield - in a hot province they're much slower.

Clearly, I'd have to be a complete fool to simply march on his capital. I'm going to make some quick gains while he reinforces (and yes I have scouts), fortify a new border, and then start freezing provinces remotely before battles start.

[Manuk]

You can't count in assasins. as cool as they are they are meant more to kill researchers than commanders. He just have to bring basic 30g commanders and your assasin's turn is wasted and his army moved away from him.
Altough it would be nice to kill his priests. Unless he has some tough prophet or something for divine blessing instead of the common blessing.

How about lizardmen shaman casting curse to the giants.

Indy archers plus fire arrows.

Raiding devils.

Devils on hold and attack large enemy monsters (if the
commanders are bigger than the common giants this can be a sort of assasination).

Body etereal on vanguard?

dunno.

[Baalz]

DrPraetorious said:
Clearly, I'd have to be a complete fool to simply march on his capital. I'm going to make some quick gains while he reinforces (and yes I have scouts), fortify a new border, and then start freezing provinces remotely before battles start.

Heh, yeah, pretty much all strategy is easier said than done against an opponent who is on the ball, but its good to know if you can force your opponent into a disadvantageous situation. I think the Abyssian dominion pushes heat the same way the Niefelheim does cold, so your strategy of fortifying and freezing him out should be applicable in reverse. Thaw those giants out! I'm guessing that those dual blessed giants have probably led to a low dominion score any chance of dominion push? Get a couple of blood sacrificers near the border and pair it with aggressive demon-bred raiding in his back country and the heat will really cut into the income necessary to crank out those expensive giants (I think heat-3 will give -30% income for Niefelheim). Give a "warm welcome" to the giants who try to come in and squash your temples, stay in the high heat dominion and play with the home-field advantage.

[Ironhawk]

Those are some great ideas, Manuk. You could even combine them and have ethereal devils as your vanguard

I know Aby cant cast it but my #1 spell vs big targets is always Gifts from Heaven. Blasts big creatures to bits in a single hit.

Isnt there a blood spell that diseases an army? Rain of Toads, I think? Now, that is pretty useless vs a normal dom3 300 unit horde. But if all you are facing is a 40 unit army? Then it starts to make a difference.

The suggestion of an SC is a good one, too. Its not that hard to get an SC with truly heroic defense (25+). Which, against giants should be pretty good, given that you cant be mobbed in the traditional sense. Heart finding swords is also and excellent suggestion. In fact, if the giants dont have magic weapons (i dont think they do?) you could make an SC with a heart finder sword, etherealness, lucky, and piles of defense (dont bother with Prot, you will die in one hit anyway) and he would probably kick the hell out of a large number of giants.

[Shovah32]

Actually, due to their huge health disease isnt effective against other elite units(vans ect). If your going to raid him and manage to find a death mage somewhere QM taught me a very nice strat: Hire a few demonbred slayers, forge them rods of the leper kings and then summon fiends of darkness. Each rod equipped demonbred can lead 40 and the entire group has both stealth and flying.