MoV usage

[HoneyBadger]

It's not so much that everyone's going to run out and use MoVs, for me, as it is the possibility of equipping a winged, sacred, cheap, non-capital assassin on a nation, someday, to take advantage of this sort of thing.

I admit it's a stretch, but just sitting here thinking about it, I've already got another nation idea:

Say if you had a nation of pure demons, with lots of Fire and Blood, some Earth, maybe minor Astral and Death, and good forging, but weak troops. You could call it "Dis: The Forges of Hell". And it would basically be a Nation with strong PD but weak troops and no starting army (Imps, Soulless as recruits, Capital-only Devils, maybe a few others, with a collection of interesting, but not overpowered Commanders, all expensive), set up to do diplomacy in MP (it can easily forge the various infernal items, like Lifelong Protection and Hellsword, and then trade them to other Nations, which it needs to do, because it's gem-poor, and very weak-but very useful as an ally-in the Early Game). Eventually it would get really powerful summons, but it would take longer to get them than other Nations.

So sometimes the ideas have their usefulness in just leading to other ideas.

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

Say if you had a nation of pure demons, with lots of Fire and Blood, some Earth, maybe minor Astral and Death, and good forging, but weak troops. You could call it "Dis: The Forges of Hell". And it would basically be a Nation with strong PD but weak troops and no starting army (Imps, Soulless as recruits, Capital-only Devils, maybe a few others, with a collection of interesting, but not overpowered Commanders, all expensive), set up to do diplomacy in MP (it can easily forge the various infernal items, like Lifelong Protection and Hellsword, and then trade them to other Nations, which it needs to do, because it's gem-poor, and very weak-but very useful as an ally-in the Early Game). Eventually it would get really powerful summons, but it would take longer to get them than other Nations.

So sometimes the ideas have their usefulness in just leading to other ideas.

I like that concept. Though with a weak army, I am not sure about the designation of "gem-poor". I think if they are intended to use forging as diplomatic fodder, it would give them a better niche if they were in fact the best forging nation out of the gate - with a unit that had a forge bonus, and randoms that could potentially give 2 in anything but Nature (seems wrong ). And then supplement that forging/searing ability with a fairly varied capital gem income. BUT, make them be fairly poor researchers. They're doers, not thinkers - but they won't get too far without doing a LOT of thinking, to get to their top end summons (which could be scattered among a few different schools of magic).

[HoneyBadger]

Well, they need to get up the Construction tree to forge trade goodies, so I was thinking that's where their summons would be--maybe summons at Construction 5, 7, 9, and 10? I'm thinking their summons would be of the "Infernal Machine" variety. They'd maybe get some National spells in other paths, too.

And it's thematic that "thinking demons" would be good researchers. I don't mind them having access to lots of spells. As far as gems, they could get some, but I was hoping they'd trade for them, or have to expand to get them.

They're very reminiscent of Abyssia as it is, and taking gems away makes them different. Instead of gems, maybe a gold boost? That way, they could buy more PD and potentially trade gold for gems. And they wouldn't have any good blood-dowsers, just blood mages.

I wouldn't make them the strongest forgers in the game, just the strongest at the blood-related items they can build. I wouldn't give them *any* Air, Nature, or Water, because they're meant to be specialized-Air would make it too easy to forge feathers anyway, and I don't want their research getting completely out of control. I'd probably make their access to Fire limited too, in that it would be very common, but very weak (Every mage would have Fire 1, few would have Fire 2, none would have Fire 3), again to differentiate them somewhat from Abyssia.

Their PD would be terrific, maybe the strongest in the game (gargoyles, anyone?), so no starting army. Atleast not one that can be used to expand--I'd probably give them an immobile rush-stopper, like Aksum has. They'd still have recruitables, just not great ones, so they'll eventually expand.

[Sombre]

I'm sure this has been said multiple times in this thread, but since it's here I'll say it myself: MoV is garbage. The effect is so craptacular and unpredictable and the cost so high (a mage turn, fire gems, a commander) that even for fun it's pretty much a 'pfft' rather than a 'boom'.

[Edratman]

I agree with Sombre.

[Crevan]

Ok. Again.
My favorite assasin, can kill any commander without a scratch: Heliophagus with Black hearth. Equip: pair of Picas/Procus axes, Horror Helmet, Ethereal cloak, Brimbstone Boots. If he`ll fail to assasinate or just trapped with PD, all his equipment will be captured. I`m better forge MoV - and all equip will be destroyed
Second - Heliophagus is flying unit, so he`ll attack close to enemy. And if he die, blast of MoV will damage enemy...maybe kill, maybe not, but if there`s a chance - I`ll bet!

[Ironhawk]

Originally Posted by Crevan

I`m better forge MoV - and all equip will be destroyed

Crevan, where did you get this idea? While it might seem "realistic" it doesn't apply to dom3. Your equipment will be dropped when your unit dies - the game doesnt care at all if you have a MoV equipped.

[Crevan]

Originally Posted by Ironhawk

Crevan, where did you get this idea? While it might seem "realistic" it doesn't apply to dom3. Your equipment will be dropped when your unit dies - the game doesnt care at all if you have a MoV equipped.

Really? Then I`m the biggest fool there!!!
Damn, damn, and damn again. Why nobody can translate Dominions` manuals into good russian! It`s not first time I fail just because of my bad english. And even he`ll be good - where I can find all necessary info if ALL our community is about 20-30 men, and I`m one of the best with all my mistakes and kid`errors


Anybody know, where I can find good manual? I know, it MUST be, I just need to find!

[Ironhawk]

Ah, dont be so hard on yourself. I doubt if I looked through the manual (i'm a native english speaker) that it would say anything about how the Medallion of Vengeance actually works. I speak only from experience - I have never seen an effect in dominions that destroys items. There are mechanics for picking up / losing items after a battle, but no actual in-game effect which explicitly destroys them.

[HoneyBadger]

If MoV destroyed items, it *would* be more useful, so that's-if unintentional-a good suggestion, Crevan.

The Manual was written by a guy (Bruce Geryk) with a lot of experience writing manuals for other games, but limited experience playing Dominions, which shows, because the author really struggles with Dominion concepts. Doesn't do a bad job, really, but I'd hate to have to suffer through an MP game, if all my knowledge of how things work came from the Manual. I also feel it could have been written in a way that made you more excited about actually *playing* the game. Mr Geryk admits that he's not a mythology expert, and that shows too.