Conceptual Balance Mod v1.92

[Valerius]

I also hope you don't stop posting, Executor.

Obviously people will have differences when it comes to subjective things like balance but a little civility can go a long way. And sometimes you just agree to disagree and hope llama takes your side when reviewing the matter. And be glad you don't have to deal with all this like he does.

[kianduatha]

I think the takeaway from all this is that Ashdod can expand quite handily with its non-sacred giant troops--which is really awesome.

I don't understand why people would want Zamzummites to be cheaper rather than better mages. Especially if expansion is starting to be from actual troops instead of Adon power-hour, the next step seems to be adjusting balance to be roughly equal between Zamzummite mage-power and Adon thuggery.

Frankly, though, I have no idea how powerful Ashdod is at the moment. Nobody plays them in legit games.

[Valerius]

Originally Posted by kianduatha

I think the takeaway from all this is that Ashdod can expand quite handily with its non-sacred giant troops--which is really awesome.

This is definitely worth pointing out since CBM made those non-sacreds cheaper than vanilla. And this combines nicely with the current scales making prod more appealing than ever.

Originally Posted by kianduatha

I don't understand why people would want Zamzummites to be cheaper rather than better mages. Especially if expansion is starting to be from actual troops instead of Adon power-hour, the next step seems to be adjusting balance to be roughly equal between Zamzummite mage-power and Adon thuggery.

Because discounting their price a bit lets you afford more of them; making them better mages increases their power considerably more because you don't have to use those all important gems to open up things like banefire and drain life and even summon earthpower (combined with an E bless) for a mage that has incredible staying power. And as I mentioned, these aren't fragile mages that can't survive a late game battlefield.

Now I realize your proposal of a 25-50% chance of an extra DE pick is very different from the 100% chance they have in vanilla but those are the concerns I have about going that route.

[Executor]

Originally Posted by llamabeast

I hope you won't actually stop posting Executor, as your comments and discussion are much appreciated and I read them carefully. I may be fairly quiet on here but I read the forums constantly (I don't post so much since I'm generally either at work or on my phone).

Oh no, I'll be around Sombres forum as always, any real modding discussions and projects are done there anyway. The fact you go though these threads regularly and have the unpleasant job of sorting out all comments, suggestions and rants for further projects is well known to me. That is much appreciated as always. We all do out part to contribute something to this game which borders addiction.
I just don't know why I even bother here. I know I can be an ars or overstate myself sometimes but damn, at least I come around...

[Torgon]

Playing a game with Marverni and just noticed something.

With the new buffs to animals marverni's boars now have berserk. However, the boars they get with the spell iron pigs do not (yep, cool little thing about iron pigs with marverni, you get sacred iron boar versions instead of just normal iron pigs).

For consistency it seems like they should also get berserk if the normal boars now have it. Iron pigs explicitly says that it doesn't effect the minds of the animals.

However, obvious problem is that berserk (with the buff to prot and most importantly the unroutability) might actually be a little overpowered on the iron boars. Marv would now be getting 10 unroutable, super high protection, sacred tramplers for 4 E gems apiece.

[kianduatha]

Originally Posted by Torgon

Playing a game with Marverni and just noticed something.

With the new buffs to animals marverni's boars now have berserk. However, the boars they get with the spell iron pigs do not (yep, cool little thing about iron pigs with marverni, you get sacred iron boar versions instead of just normal iron pigs).

For consistency it seems like they should also get berserk if the normal boars now have it. Iron pigs explicitly says that it doesn't effect the minds of the animals.

However, obvious problem is that berserk (with the buff to prot and most importantly the unroutability) might actually be a little overpowered on the iron boars. Marv would now be getting 10 unroutable, super high protection, sacred tramplers for 4 E gems apiece.

It was not an oversight; that is exactly why the Iron boars do not have berserk.

[Valerius]

I was wondering what people use the great eagle for (Conj. 7, 4 A gems). It's not expensive, but the research level seems high for what it does - especially because the Roc is available at Conj. 6 (though of course it costs more and requires A4 to summon). Do they have a niche that I'm not seeing? The main thing that stands out is that they have map move 4.

Edit: I guess maybe to ferry gems and misc items around since they are actually cheaper than flying boots?

[Torgon]

Originally Posted by kianduatha

It was not an oversight; that is exactly why the Iron boars do not have berserk.

Okay. Good to know. Still not a huge fan of the consistency problem. To bad you can't fix it with a price change since it would effect the spell for every other nation as well.

Maybe just add some flavor text to the iron boars explaining why they no longer berserk. Perhaps they're smart enough to realize that their skin is now made of steel.

[Boksi]

Originally Posted by Torgon

Okay. Good to know. Still not a huge fan of the consistency problem. To bad you can't fix it with a price change since it would effect the spell for every other nation as well.

Maybe just add some flavor text to the iron boars explaining why they no longer berserk. Perhaps they're smart enough to realize that their skin is now made of steel.

Maybe they can't feel pain anymore because their skin is made of steel?

[Torgon]

Originally Posted by Boksi

Maybe they can't feel pain anymore because their skin is made of steel?

haha. Good point.