[OT] Another heated discussion about the Iraq siutation, war and politics.

[Mephisto]

Originally posted by Atrocities:
In a hundred years, non of this will matter.

Then the war is unjustified. Either it changes something fundamental or it does not and in this case we don't need it. I fear that the end result is no where near what Bush dreams of and that it will indeed matters in 100 years...

[oleg]

Originally posted by Atrocities:
In a hundred years, non of this will matter.

And for the record, it is a war against Saddam (Terrorism), not a war against Iraq(Oppressed people).

Excuse me, but what are the proofs of links between Irag and terrorism ? I did not hear of any. So far, Mister Bush and members of his administration presnted no evidence, just unfounded accusations of alleged links.

I hate to say this, but Bush seems to embrase the old Gebbels' maxim: "if you want people to believe in lies, make lies extrodianary!" (sorry, I may misquote).

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by Mephisto:
. I fear that the end result is no where near what Bush dreams of and that it will indeed matters in 100 years...

I agree. Worst case scenario Iraq really have nukes, give a couple to Al Qaeda, they detonate one in an american city, and its game over for the US.
And really don't like the idea of a world without the US keeping China, NK, Iran and the others back in line, because if it were for the EU Pakistan and India would have had radiated borders long ago.

[primitive]

Originally posted by Atrocities:
In a hundred years, non of this will matter.

And for the record, it is a war against Saddam (Terrorism), not a war against Iraq(Oppressed people).

I hope You are right, but I fear you are wrong.

In a hundred Years Saddam and the Iraq war will only be a footnote in history.

I am afraid 2003 will be remembered as the year USA, as the worlds only superpower, stept aside from the path of unity and cooperation, and decided they was better off alone. But I hope I am wrong.

I am afraid 2003 will be remembered as the year when the new frontlines was drawn, when the new cold war started. Not between East and West, but between USA (and a few close friends) and the rest of the world. But I hope I am wrong.

The damage done to USA's international relations by singlehandedly take matters in their own hand, will take years and years of carefull diplomacy too undo. I hope GWB is wise enough to do it. But I fear he is not.

[thorfrog]

Hey does anyone remember the League of Nations? The precusor to the United Nations. It proved to be an all talk no action group. Their failer lead to WW2. Today the United Nations is not so different. It is no suprize that the French and Russians are against this war in Iraq? They have economic deals that might fall apart. They have the most to lose. They could care less that Sadam is murdering his own people provided France gets paid.

Iraq has been building weapons of mass destruction for over 20 years. Anyone wonder why they tried to build a nuke reactor in the 80's. That wasn't for power. They wanted the bomb. Now imagine them having nukes when the Gulf War started.

The world has given Iraq over 12 years to comply. In that time they rebuilt their forces and chem/bio weapons. Yep VX gas. I'd say this stuff is worse then a nuke. It breaks just about every treaty out there. But what else changed? Terror strategies changed. 9/11 woke the US up. These rogue states that support these terror Groups now have a way to get at America. And countries like Iraq can support them and play dumb. So now the US has to strike. If we don't it only encourages these terror strikes. We took down Afganistan because of this. Iraq is next.

I say it was a mistake for Allies to not invade Iraq when they had the chance in 1991. It may have stablized the whole region. The biggest mistake of the Bush Sr Presidency.

[Mephisto]

Originally posted by Aloofi:
... because if it were for the EU Pakistan and India would have had radiated borders long ago.

I wonder were you get your EU news from?

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by Mephisto:
I wonder were you get your EU news from?

What i meant was that the EU doesn't have the power or the will to hold the bad guys back.
I know that the EU doesn't want a Pakistani/Hindi war.

[ March 18, 2003, 21:24: Message edited by: Aloofi ]

[Atrocities]

I am afraid 2003 will be remembered as the year USA, as the worlds only superpower, stept aside from the path of unity and cooperation, and decided they was better off alone. But I hope I am wrong.

And if we do nothing, in a hundred years history would report that the US could have stopped one of the worst terrorist attacks in world history and failed.

No one knows for certain what is right and wrong in this. There are people who love to protest just for the sake of protesting. They are nothing more than "15" minute fame seekers who could not get on reality tv show.

Before you protest something, you should be informed, and they are not.

No one wants a war, and Saddam has been given over 12 years to prevent one. How much longer should we wait? Should we wait until he gives a biological weapon to some suicide terrorist group who then use it to kill millions? Or should we just wait until he develops a nuke and blows one of his neighbors to hell?

Remember, the choice to fight is Saddams. He has had ample time to come clean. Hell he has even had time to leave Iraq and has instead elected to remain behind and make threats that he will use the very weapons of mass destruction that he claims he does not have against his own people to insure that they die rather than live without him.

Sure lets just leave him alone, I am sure he won't do anything that will hurt people.

[Atrocities]

I should also point out that if people feel that Saddam is a good man, they should go live in his country for a year. If they protest there, they would simply be shot without ever getting a sound bite on the local news. Correction, they would get a report, a report annoucing their deaths as traitors to Saddam.

Oleg, look at his track record. Look at what Saddam has done in the past to his own people. Has Bush committed mas murder in order to test out a biological weapon? No, he has not. Saddam's connection to terrorism is that he has funded many families of suicide bombers. He has given money to other terrorist organizations and even had terrorist training camps in Iraq. So ya, he connected alright, right at the hip.

If he has the technology to use, he WILL use it. He has proven this. What has Bush and many others worried is that he had given biological weapons away to terrorist before. They were stopped.

Once the conflict starts, and it has been shown that Saddam has been sitting on these weapons all the while denying they exist, then perhaps people will understand the true danger he poses.

Its not the country with 50 nukes I am afraid of, its the dumbass with one that has be freaked out.

And biological weapons make nukes look like firecrakers. AND SADDAM has that technology. Remember what he did to the Kurds and to the Iranians?

[ March 18, 2003, 21:31: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

[tesco samoa]

atomannj for 30 years Isreal has not left the occupied terrorties. That is a UN resolution.

Yes France and Russia are against it. That does not answer why most of the world is against it as well. Mexico, Latin America, Canada are against it.

And that is a pile of bull saying that France does not care he is murdering his own people... No one has cared.

So when is your war on terror going to bomb Ireland. Sinn Fenn is in Dublin I believe... Why not bomb Cork, Dublin etc...

Why not start with the CIA head quaters.

Yes their strong so we should attack. But lets attack now when their weak. We will find out over the next week what weapons they have. Will we find out the truth. I doubt it.

It took a web of lies to get us this far. Why stop now.

Your own country supports terror. Go look it up. IRA recieves most of its support from Eastern United States. Contra's , Panama, Trujillo , Somoza , Marcos , Duvalier. Perhaps it is the time to question why your country is going down this direction and why it is dragging the rest of the world with it. ( just to give it an 80's feel )